Oolite Bulletins

Moderator: Split from Other Space Sims thread in Outworld.

Anonymissimus wrote:

http://a-astra.com/

It's just a small project of a single person, but it's much better than oolite in a few aspects. For instance, you can configure everything about the way of control you want to use, in an UI as is the standard in a normal program. The way of control is generally easier and straightforward. No need to ident or press thousands of keys until you can finally fire that missile.

Oolite needs two key presses to fire a missile, target and fire. I don't think that's too many.

spara wrote:

Oolite needs two key presses to fire a missile, target and fire. I don't think that's too many.

It also requires to make the available missiles visible, since every time something is targeted that cannot be fired a missile upon, they are no longer, and then selecting it, and previously you need to lock onto the target and and and. If you try the game I linked above you can see how simple firing a missile can be, namely a single keystroke.
Admittedly though, it does not allow selecting a type of missile to fire. There's just a queue and you get what's next, similar to the pylon reloader.

Anonymissimus wrote:

spara wrote:

Oolite needs two key presses to fire a missile, target and fire. I don't think that's too many.

It also requires to make the available missiles visible, since every time something is targeted that cannot be fired a missile upon, they are no longer, and then selecting it, and previously you need to lock onto the target and and and. If you try the game I linked above you can see how simple firing a missile can be, namely a single keystroke.
Admittedly though, it does not allow selecting a type of missile to fire. There's just a queue and you get what's next, similar to the pylon reloader.

Sorry, I don't get your problem here. I see a target, I target it (T) and then I launch a missile (M). Rinse and repeat. No need to make anything visible or select the next missile or anything. Assuming I don't want to select different missiles.

spara wrote:

I see a target, I target it (T) and then I launch a missile (M). Rinse and repeat. No need to make anything visible or select the next missile or anything. Assuming I don't want to select different missiles.

Every time you want to target e.g. a whormhole you cannot use key_target_missile to target it, you have to use key_ident_system for it. Then my missles look like this:

Albeit they should be *always* displayed so that it can be seen which is selected. Perhaps that depends on the HUD ?

Anonymissimus wrote:

spara wrote:

I see a target, I target it (T) and then I launch a missile (M). Rinse and repeat. No need to make anything visible or select the next missile or anything. Assuming I don't want to select different missiles.

Every time you want to target e.g. a whormhole you cannot use key_target_missile to target it, you have to use key_ident_system for it. Then my missles look like this:

Albeit they should be *always* displayed so that it can be seen which is selected. Perhaps that depends on the HUD ?

Ah. I see. That's probably because there are two different kinds of targeting systems in Oolite. Missile targeting and ID targeting. The game sees that you have a missile lock and NPCs might act accordingly. ID targeting is not provocative, missile targeting is.

I agree, the missile display is a bit defective. IMHO the missile load out should always be visible.

Discussion has moved back to Oolite territory, so moving from Other Space Sims in Outworld to here.

spara wrote:

there are two different kinds of targeting systems in Oolite. Missile targeting and ID targeting.

Too complicated. Sometimes less is more.
What I don't need either is this:

(display of the current target instead of pylons content)

Anonymissimus wrote:

spara wrote:

there are two different kinds of targeting systems in Oolite. Missile targeting and ID targeting.

Too complicated. Sometimes less is more.
What I don't need either is this:

(display of the current target instead of pylons content)

Interesting, that's exactly what I do want.
As a none user of missiles, the Identity of my current target is much more important, especially when I have the [wiki]Target System Memory Expansion[/wiki]. To be able to find the highest threat in a fight is the most useful thing for me.

Anonymissimus wrote:

spara wrote:

there are two different kinds of targeting systems in Oolite. Missile targeting and ID targeting.

Too complicated. Sometimes less is more.

In what sense? The game differentiates missile targeting and ID targeting. The other action can be seen as hostile and the other not. You want to change that? IMHO that would not only simplify the UI, it would simplify the game taking some depth away.

It would be nice, if the missile/ident selector could be separated. That way there could be HUDs that show the missile load out and the target identity at the same time.

spara wrote:

Anonymissimus wrote:

spara wrote:

there are two different kinds of targeting systems in Oolite. Missile targeting and ID targeting.

Too complicated. Sometimes less is more.

In what sense? The game differentiates missile targeting and ID targeting. The other action can be seen as hostile and the other not. You want to change that? IMHO that would not only simplify the UI, it would simplify the game taking some depth away.

It would be nice, if the missile/ident selector could be separated. That way there could be HUDs that show the missile load out and the target identity at the same time.

For me it's simple. 95% of the time I don't want missiles - I don't want them on line, I don't want to be targeting with them, I don't need to see what I have left. I really try to avoid having them on line since it's too easy to fire accidentally while docking etc.

What might be good is a way to switch targeting mode to missiles by e.g. pressing the missile fire button once to switch, then again to fire. That way accidents are a little less likely, but you can switch modes from the joystick. Fire the laser again to switch back?

One other thing - it would be really nice if the weapons display didn't come up when you are doing something dangerous (e.g. red alert status) that isn't combat, such as using the planetary landing add-on or going a little too deep in a sundive. It's distracting and not at all helpful.

I seem to be one of the few who uses missiles extensively. As trader my current Ophidian is no real good dogfighter and to be honest I suck in fighting more than two ships, so I use missiles to keep a bunch attacking me and my precious cargo busy, while I take on one of them directly.

When I played multirole in the past, I normally engaged by using two missiles in short sequence as a first line of attack against a bigger target. Shields down, and let the laser do the rest. Was quite effective.

My two cents concerning both targeting mechanisms is keep things like they are. I like it there's a difference between a neutral "look, who's there" and the provocative "gotcha". After all in reality I don't always meet people with a grim look... Well, most of the times... if it isn't early... oh, well

To someone who understands how the Ai works, do npc's react differently if you target them with a missile lock than with a id lock?

ffutures wrote:

One other thing - it would be really nice if the weapons display didn't come up when you are doing something dangerous (e.g. red alert status) that isn't combat, such as using the planetary landing add-on or going a little too deep in a sundive. It's distracting and not at all helpful.

That's badly scripted HUDs you're describing there, not any core game feature? Many worldscripts, HUD and other, seem to tacitly assume that alert condition red is synonymous with combat alert.

phkb wrote:

To someone who understands how the Ai works, do npc's react differently if you target them with a missile lock than with a id lock?

Cim's probably the only one who can answer that. I assume they _can_ act differently because there's an event for missile lock. In a big picture it does not really matter from the player's point of view, even the idea of neutral and hostile targeting affects the game play giving the game depth.

ffutures wrote:

spara wrote:

It would be nice, if the missile/ident selector could be separated. That way there could be HUDs that show the missile load out and the target identity at the same time.

For me it's simple. 95% of the time I don't want missiles - I don't want them on line, I don't want to be targeting with them, I don't need to see what I have left. I really try to avoid having them on line since it's too easy to fire accidentally while docking etc.

Exactly because there are different player and different needs, separating the ID and the missile load out might serve a purpose. I can easily envision a fighter HUD used by bounty hunters showing the missile load out all the time. And to prevent misunderstandings, I don't mean that the current ID/missile element needs to go, I mean that there could be use for separate ID and missile elements.

Wildeblood wrote:

ffutures wrote:

One other thing - it would be really nice if the weapons display didn't come up when you are doing something dangerous (e.g. red alert status) that isn't combat, such as using the planetary landing add-on or going a little too deep in a sundive. It's distracting and not at all helpful.

That's badly scripted HUDs you're describing there, not any core game feature? Many worldscripts, HUD and other, seem to tacitly assume that alert condition red is synonymous with combat alert.

Indeed, red alert does no automatically mean hostilities. A few HUDs seem to assume so.

Anonymissimus wrote:

spara wrote:

there are two different kinds of targeting systems in Oolite. Missile targeting and ID targeting.

Too complicated. Sometimes less is more.
What I don't need either is this:

(display of the current target instead of pylons content)

Targeting and I.D. are the minimum necessary surely? How can the two essential functions be 'too complicated?
And knowing your current target is also essential so I can't see why you feel you don't need it. When things get lively and you have several 'innocents' I.D'd, and a few bogies targeted in the TSME it is vital that you know the current selected target.
The current system is simple yet comprehensive, so I don't favour mucking about with it. I do agree a separate display for the pylons might be useful to some, but as somebody who only ever has a hardhead or two on board this would be a bit redundant for me.