Oolite Bulletins

I am loving the advances... But what have we lost?

Galactic Navy.
Illicit Unlock
Jaguar Company
Z Groovy Paint Jobs
Zygo's Cinematic
Custom Lasers


I mean thats just Six... So I don't know...Did we peak at 1.77.1 ?

Duggan wrote:

Did we peak at 1.77.1 ?

Yes.

Duggan wrote:

Did we peak at 1.77.1 ?

I don't think so. I think some really creative things have been happening with the system since 1.77.1. Having said that, I think most of the items on your list are still functional:
- Gal Navy is still around and works with the latest builds, and I think one of the developers dropped by recently to indicate work might be continuing.
- Jaguar Company is available via the download manager and works fine in 1.80 and 1.82.
- ZGroovy's paint jobs are also available from the download manager. I just released an OXP, called "Ship Respray", that can make use of ZGroovy's paint jobs.
- Illicit Unlock (from what I can tell) was something of a hack that has been superseded by core functionality. Edit: From what I can see of the code, though, I think it would still work in 1.80 and 1.82)
- Zygo's Cinematic Skies is still available (https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12942) although based on the latest posts there might be some issues with the OXP.
- Custom lasers - I'm not sure about this one, as I can't seem to find it.

My feeling, based on what I've seen happening on the forum, is that Oolite is moving forward and becoming both deep and broad in its expansion pack options. If OXP's drop off the compatibility list it won't be due to a lack of passion or interest - purely a matter of available time to update things. A lot of developers have been extremely diligent in upgrading their OXP's to use the latest functionality in Oolite. So, no, Oolite didn't peak at 1.77.1

Just my two bits.

I don't know about the others, but Zygo's Cinematic Skies works perfectly in both 1.80 and 1.82 - in fact, every screenshot I have posted in the last year and a half or so makes use of it. The only problem, if you want to call it that, that I am aware of, is that it lowers the ambient lighting a bit too much for some people's tastes.

Duggan wrote:

I am loving the advances... But what have we lost?

Well, that's like saying you like having a car but miss not being able to visit the next village because it is over a day's walk away, isn't it? One of the things about progress is that the old is sometimes left behind, nearly always in favour of something better.
And old OXPs have been withering long before v1.80 came along - the author moves on and it falls into disrepair and eventually dies, unless somebody else thinks it worthy of saving of course.
On the plus side, as the game has matured more becomes possible. With much more realistic AIs and vastly improved js applications the whole game is more complex and 'real' meaning that it is more immersive than ever.
And of course tastes change as well. Take GN as an example, when it was released it seemed awesome, but today it's somewhat crude approach (forced on it by the limited possibilities of Oolite back then) is just not ticking the right boxes. Perhaps one day it may be brought in line with the modern game and what the (more sophisticated?) players of today want.
And many players today want that realism, that believability, that balance that makes it seem more like a way of life than a game. And even if you don't, if you want silly-uber or something wildly apart from the core game, there are people out there catering to your desires.
And with the expandability available to the community, nothing actually needs to be lost at all. All that is needed is somebody willing to take an old feature or OXP forward. Like I did with the tired old 'Elite-style' ships. Dull and boring, they were replaced in v1.80, but because I and many others appreciate and value them, I was able to bring them back with a vengeance. Resurrected and updated, they are now available as what I think is one of the most beautiful ship sets out there.
And if there are aspects that nobody does take forward it's probably because the effort is not worth it, or there is simply not enough demand. It's had its time and will gracefully fade away into obscurity.

Duggan wrote:

Did we peak at 1.77.1 ?

No, far from it. In some ways v1.77 was the Last Hurrah of the 'old' Oolite. v1.80 is the dawn of the new Oolite which will be so much better I expect people will see it as a Golden Age in time.

You see this is the problem of chivvy like posts in relation to a community project.
Legitimately there is no "man" that anyone can effectively "stick it to".

If you have lost something glorious than jack open the code and have a go at fixing it.
The forum will of course be cheering you on every step of the way.

Thanks for the feedback chaps. I am not , categorically not, trying to negate the wonderful advances.I did however get to waxing nostalgic a little As such I thought to open a discussion with a question (thats all it was..a question) to see whether it was just me...or not... I fully understand that to make an omlette...well you know...

goes off to look up what "chivvy like posts" means.

phkb wrote:

- Gal Navy is still around and works with the latest builds, and I think one of the developers dropped by recently to indicate work might be continuing.

GalNavy loses the station market, but should otherwise work as before. I use it occasionally while testing as the most convenient way to check turret code still works.

phkb wrote:

- Illicit Unlock (from what I can tell) was something of a hack that has been superseded by core functionality. Edit: From what I can see of the code, though, I think it would still work in 1.80 and 1.82)

Nothing in core that does the same, but it still seems to work okay here - so long as you don't mind the Mamba, Krait, etc. it unlocks using the pre-1.80 textures and models.

Duggan wrote:

I fully understand that to make an omlette

True, but I wouldn't personally view Oolite's OXP support as an omelette - more as an eggbasket, to extend the metaphor.

There's quite a bit of compatibility code in Oolite to make sure that old OXPs - GalNavy and Assassins probably being the biggest two - continue to work more-or-less as before. So if there are OXPs which worked in previous versions which don't work in 1.82, then we'd like to know about that before we release it.

Duggan wrote:

Custom Lasers

Well, theres New Lasers which does similar to custom lasers albeit on a smaller scale (3 'new' Elite manual laser names with different colours and profiles).
That stuff actually got easier in 1.81 or else I wouldn't have been up to it...

I'll give it a look over and upload it to the manager once 1.82 is out.
If there's something you feel it's missing then please let me know.

Duggan wrote:

Thanks for the feedback chaps. I am not , categorically not, trying to negate the wonderful advances.I did however get to waxing nostalgic a little As such I thought to open a discussion with a question (thats all it was..a question) to see whether it was just me...or not... I fully understand that to make an omlette...well you know...

goes off to look up what "chivvy like posts" means.

If you saw a thing that was so much a part of your childhood that you can't imagine your life without it. Going into a skip, you would reach down and reclaim it? Wouldn't you?
If the world you find, displeases you. Then all you have to do is remake it. Just reach down and pick it up.

I do not mean this as a facetious comment. We must find time for the things we love. Else we just vector from shiny thing to shiny thing, never putting down roots, never feeling we belong. This is a game worth investing it.

My own candy-colored view is to give 1.82 a try! I love my oxp's like I love my tea, laden with masala spices. But, I'll give 1.82 a try when it's officially released and see what it does to all the old things. My understanding is that markets on older oxp stations will be a problem, and that's sad, if true, but I'll see about patching a few things here and there if I need to. Will there be a compatibility oxp in the same way as the one for older ship mods in 1.80? Something to help shore up the limitations in obsolete expansions?

Layne wrote:

My understanding is that markets on older oxp stations will be a problem, and that's sad, if true, but I'll see about patching a few things here and there if I need to...

Should not be that many left not working. SpaceBars, Kiotas, Behemoths, Rescue Stations, ConStores, Casinos and Stations for Extra Planets should have working markets in 1.82. Some have gone through a bigger change than others . For a simple conversion, have a look at the new Kiota markets.

spara wrote:

For a simple conversion, have a look at the new Kiota markets.

I'll use it for a template for my own patching; see, I'm weird in that I'm still using some older versions of many OXPs for the more retro textures (my Constores have the original 'box' shape, my Casinos are of the pre-neon sort, etc., and I doubt anyone has made the 1.82 fix for the old Free Market Zone OXP that I use...), so the helpful upgrades to the newer versions don't fix my versions. But if I can see what needs to be done with Kiota as my guideline, I can spend a couple of days fixing up the older versions to my own satisfaction. Thanks!

In the windows 64 trunk nightly , I am getting two unknowns for Jaguar Company in the download manager...Which is why I thought I'd have to give that up.

Duggan wrote:

I am getting two unknowns for Jaguar Company in the download manager...

Was the same hosting problem as with BGS, fixed now.