Oolite Bulletins

I don't exactly see why the expanded cargo bay is limited to so few ships. It really doesn't give you any reason to buy them if you can't at least squeak a bit more out of them with an upgrade.

They don't have to all be equal. If the CobraIII goes from 20 to 35, and the Adder from 2 to 5, then other ships could have varying degrees of success for balance sake.

Heck, why isn't this standard?

Well, the big haulers, Python, Boa and Anaconda, don't really need 'em, do they? As for the rest though.. good point.

Diziet Sma wrote:

Well, the big haulers, Python, Boa and Anaconda, don't really need 'em, do they? As for the rest though.. good point.

You're right the big ones don't need them, which makes it funny that the python does have it!

That ties in with the fiction, if I recall correctly, and the Adder having it has to do with the Hard start option I'm guessing.

But honestly, even fiction wise whatever techniques are used to squeeze out some extra cargo space is going to be tried on all ships with different degrees of success. Maybe a dedicated fighter or two will not be compatible, but most should be.

Excluding Boa and Anaconda, pretty much any core ship should have it.

Do they? Doesn't seem like it... The wiki certainly doesn't show it. I'd love to know how much the various ships are affected.

mossfoot wrote:

... The wiki certainly doesn't show it..

Er, it does. Have a look at the info box on the right side of the page.

I think, by "should", Zireael means "ought to".. not "do".

So far as I can see, in the core game, cargo expansion bays are only available for the Cobra Mk3, the Moray Medical, and the Python.

Looking things over, some it makes no sense to give an expansion bay to, as they are intended as fighters only, and/or are not hyperspace capable, or are not available for players to purchase.. after removing those from consideration, that just leaves a small handful of ships where it might be feasible to permit an expansion bay.

Here is a list from my notes, along with what I think might be reasonable expansions for each, with notes for the reason, where it might seem excessive:

Adder - extra 3TC (to permit a passenger berth)
CobraMk1 - extra 5TC
Fer-de-Lance -extra 5TC
Gecko -extra 3TC (to permit a passenger berth)
Mamba - extra 3TC (passenger berth + 2TC cargo)
Moray - extra 15TC (to match medical version)

Opinions and additions/deletions (with your reasoning, please) are welcome.

TBH I've always found this whole idea a bit silly. Yes, in original Elite when you were stuck with a Cobby III this probably made sense, but with such a wide range of ships available in Oolite, it is not really necessary. Indeed I find the whole concept a bit odd - where does the expansion go? Is it like a shipping container welded to the outside of the hull? Or is it just using spare space within the ship, and if so, why wasn't that space used properly in the first place?
I'm not suggesting for a minute that extra cargo shoud be removed from the game, but seriously if the Cobby III came with 35TC capacity as standard, I would be quite happy to see this feature removed.

Diziet Sma wrote:

Looking things over, some it makes no sense to give an expansion bay to, as they are intended as fighters only, and/or are not hyperspace capable, or are not available for players to purchase.. after removing those from consideration, that just leaves a small handful of ships where it might be feasible to permit an expansion bay.

Here is a list from my notes, along with what I think might be reasonable expansions for each, with notes for the reason, where it might seem excessive:

Adder - extra 3TC (to permit a passenger berth)
CobraMk1 - extra 5TC
Fer-de-Lance -extra 5TC
Gecko -extra 3TC (to permit a passenger berth)
Mamba - extra 3TC (passenger berth + 2TC cargo)
Moray - extra 15TC (to match medical version)

Opinions and additions/deletions (with your reasoning, please) are welcome.

Looks good. I agree with Smivs that the idea is a bit silly, but then again, it makes an excellent money sink.

<nods at Smivs>

Smivs wrote:

TBH I've always found this whole idea a bit silly. Yes, in original Elite when you were stuck with a Cobby III this probably made sense, but with such a wide range of ships available in Oolite, it is not really necessary. Indeed I find the whole concept a bit odd - where does the expansion go? Is it like a shipping container welded to the outside of the hull? Or is it just using spare space within the ship, and if so, why wasn't that space used properly in the first place?
I'm not suggesting for a minute that extra cargo shoud be removed from the game, but seriously if the Cobby III came with 35TC capacity as standard, I would be quite happy to see this feature removed.

It is just an in-game wangle, of course, and it might make more sense if - as in Frontier - certain types of equipment took up cargo space, but I can see a sort-of justification for it, based on ease of construction. When the ships are being manufactured, it's a lot easier, and quicker, if the manufacturers leave internal walkways, gantries etc. open and unobstructed within the ship. It's not the most efficient use of space, once the equipment is installed and the hull is sealed, but you can always pay extra and reclaim the space, and fit more cargo. It's not as if a new stock Cobra III is anything other than barely fit to fly, anyway ...

If this is assumed to be the case, you might be able to offer cheaper and quicker repairs and maintenance to ships without a Cargo Bay Expansion fitted (if they can fit one, that is). Or have the Expansion apply a multiplier to repair/maintenance times and costs. Not so much that it wouldn't be worth getting one, but enough to differentiate ships with and without them.

It is just an in-game wangle, of course, and it might make more sense if - as in Frontier - certain types of equipment took up cargo space

I've made such an OXP some time ago: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... +Equipment

Smivs wrote:

TBH I've always found this whole idea a bit silly. Yes, in original Elite when you were stuck with a Cobby III this probably made sense, but with such a wide range of ships available in Oolite, it is not really necessary. Indeed I find the whole concept a bit odd - where does the expansion go? Is it like a shipping container welded to the outside of the hull? Or is it just using spare space within the ship, and if so, why wasn't that space used properly in the first place?
I'm not suggesting for a minute that extra cargo shoud be removed from the game, but seriously if the Cobby III came with 35TC capacity as standard, I would be quite happy to see this feature removed.

I agree from a realism stance it makes little sense (unless there was a trade off of some sort, which there isn't), but it's more the fact that a CobraIII with 20tons was already bigger than any of the other core ships, and then you could almost double it, which pretty much makes it uber compared to any other fighter-trader.

That was fine when that was the only ship you could use, but with most ships (or all with the right OXP) now available, it makes little sense for at least some kind of comparable upgrade to keep the other ships appealing. I'd LIKE to use a Fer De Lance or a Cobra I (or heck the Cobra II from the OXPs since in my world I'd come up with a neat excuse for being stuck with a rejected protoype ), but the appeal is limited when the cargo not only starts low, but has no way of being improved even a little.

It just seems like a balance oversight from when ships other than the Cobra were made available to players.


Extra Cargo rationalization - possible OXP idea: What if an extra cargo bay was a retrofit designed as external pods on the outer hull? I'm reminded of this concept from Star Wars for the YT-1300 stock light freighter (ie Millenium Falcon base design)



So the pods would be limited (in fiction) by what they could get away with without affecting performance (ie thrusters). They could also be designed as not only damageable, but could be blown right off (ending up as free floating cargo pods). I know that doesn't fit with how the extra cargo bay is rationalized in Elite fiction, but it would be neat

Diziet Sma wrote:

Here is a list from my notes, along with what I think might be reasonable expansions for each, with notes for the reason, where it might seem excessive:

Adder - extra 3TC (to permit a passenger berth)
CobraMk1 - extra 5TC
Fer-de-Lance -extra 5TC
Gecko -extra 3TC (to permit a passenger berth)
Mamba - extra 3TC (passenger berth + 2TC cargo)
Moray - extra 15TC (to match medical version)

Opinions and additions/deletions (with your reasoning, please) are welcome.

I note the Krait isn't on there. Maybe also enough for a passenger berth like a Gecko?

The Moray (either version) getting a full 15TC like a CobraIII seems a bit much compared to the other fighter-trader ships. Perhaps knocking it down to 10TC for both versions? Alternatively, boosting the CobraI and the Fer-de-Lance to 10TC to be competitive? Those are the only other ships that really fit the "fighter-trader" role in my opinion, the rest are more fighters with cargo capacity (or in the case of an Adder... glorified shuttle )