Oolite Bulletins

I really like some things about the new 1.80 release. Unfortunately, the new NPC AI upgrade has taken things from "challenging" to "exercise in frustration" for me. In the previous release, I had managed to make Average rank and was slowly but surely working toward Above Average. In 1.80, I have yet to make a kill. Not only are the pirates almost always in groups of four or more, they have so far always had ECM (making my three starting missiles basically useless), and their laser fire is powerful enough, and accurate enough, to burn through my shields and take me out before I can manage to do much more than line up for a single shot of my own. Is there any thought being given to tying the AI improvements to player ranking, so that Harmless commanders face opponents on a par with the last release AI, with NPC skills and strength improving in steps as player rank increases?

demon59 wrote:

Not only are the pirates almost always in groups of four or more, they have so far always had ECM (making my three starting missiles basically useless), and their laser fire is powerful enough, and accurate enough, to burn through my shields and take me out before I can manage to do much more than line up for a single shot of my own.

Going by the section I've highlighted in red, it sounds like you're starting out with a fresh Commander.. (which you don't actually NEED to do, of course. Your old Commander's save will work fine) If so, you need to be aware that the system political type makes much more of a difference than it did before. Corporate states are safer, and Feudal States & Anarchies are much more dangerous, with the rest fitting somewhere in between. Also, "safe" systems that happen to be surrounded by several "dangerous" systems will tend to get raided by pirates on a regular basis. NPC tactics have also been upgraded. On the bright side, their lasers now overheat, just like yours.

Until your new Commander gets some decent upgrades to their ship, it really pays to avoid dangerous systems (even Lave isn't all that safe). Also, try to travel in company, when possible.. there's safety in numbers.

Diziet Sma wrote:

Until your new Commander gets some decent upgrades to their ship, it really pays to avoid dangerous systems (even Lave isn't all that safe).

Honestly I always felt that was good advice regardless of Elite edition

Don't forget, you could install the Combat Simulator add-on so you can both train against NPCs and get feel for what your current ship is capable of

Also, as soon as you arrive out of witchspace jump, turn 90 degrees away from the planet and burn the J drive for a few seconds, then turn towards the planet and continue on your trip.
That's an old trick that gets you off the main ws beacon to planet spacelane, and away from pirate ambushes. It won't help if pirates are waiting at the ws beacon to ambush arriving traders, which they sometimes do. But if you're lucky you'd have upgraded to a beam laser and a rack of hardhead missiles before encountering that.

By the way I felt the learning curve as well when I started a new hardcore game for 1.80. Died like five or six times before I got even two successful trade trips in. And that's in an adder that starts with only 2 tons cargo to start.

Buy fuel injectors before anything else. You can escape most pirates with them (especially if you are quick to change course and use them at each mass lock). That will give each you the breathing room you need till you're kitted out for combat (and even in a stock Cobra you shouldn't logically be looking for trouble, even in the original game)

Early combat against pirates is a fair bit harder in 1.80 if you try to fight them like the 1.77 or 1.76 pirates. One thing to note in balance is that 1.80 pirates will generally accept dumped cargo (shift-D to dump, shift-R to select pod if you're carrying more than one type) and call off the attack: listen to the comms and they'll tell you how many they're after.

(For cargo dumping, incidentally, a good technique is to face away from the planet, drop to about 3/4 speed, dump the cargo as quickly as you can, then accelerate back to full speed and head for the planet again. That leaves the cargo moving quite quickly - but slowly enough that the pirates can catch up with it - so by the time they do catch it, you'll be a very long way away)

You'll still find badly-equipped packs of two or three pirates in the safer systems: you may not have recognised them as such because they'll have gone "Two rusty Mambas and a Cobra I versus a Cobra III? If they have a beam laser we've had it" and left you alone.

The difficulty curve, as people have said, has been stretched out. The safe systems are safer than before, but the dangerous ones are much more dangerous.

After getting over the first shock of early encounters I really like to new AI and difficulty when starting from new (my 1.8 Ooverse is different from 1.77 so I'm not using old ships). A few things I found are:

Running away is always the best option.
Judge the odds, even with pulse lasers 3-4 pirates will get rid of your shields very quickly (they must all have been on some gunnery training )if they get within 10Km.
Getting injectors as soon as possible is important.
Aft weapon is more useful than front - firing whilst retreating and keeping the distance from the attackers is good - head on attacks bad.
Damaged pirates are more likely to run away than before.
Choose your systems for trading wisely.

It took me quite a while before I got even one kill

Venator Dha wrote:

After getting over the first shock of early encounters I really like to new AI and difficulty when starting from new (my 1.8 Ooverse is different from 1.77 so I'm not using old ships). A few things I found are:

Running away is always the best option.
Judge the odds, even with pulse lasers 3-4 pirates will get rid of your shields very quickly (they must all have been on some gunnery training )if they get within 10Km.

Them having to be within 10km to score a hit isn't the result of gunnery practice, especially if they're shooting at a ship as big as a Cobra 3. That's akin to being so nearsighted as to only being able to shoot the broad side of a barn at point-blank range. Granted a pulse laser has only a 15km range... but if one has a mil laser and manages to shoot you at 25km, I'd be impressed.

Venator Dha wrote:

Getting injectors as soon as possible is important.
Aft weapon is more useful than front - firing whilst retreating and keeping the distance from the attackers is good - head on attacks bad.
Damaged pirates are more likely to run away than before.

^This.
Pick off the faster ones that're tailgating you, or damage them enough to make them run. Then turn about and splash them with a cold front laser. Though if all you have is a front laser:
-Slow way down and let them come to you. Hit them as they come into range.

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:

Them having to be within 10km to score a hit isn't the result of gunnery practice, especially if they're shooting at a ship as big as a Cobra 3.

Well, it is quite a bit better than they would manage in 1.77 where most of them couldn't reliably hit a Cobra 3 moving in a straight line at 5km.

Well, on the one hand under the new AI Atomic Annie has so far got splashed by raiders three sorties out of four, not counting the occasion when I suffered SGEF(1) after launching a Nova missile at one hunting pack...

... on the other hand, I took my now-slightly-less-than-Harmless Commander Esso Baldrick in the iron-assed Adder Cunning Plan from Leesti to Reidquat, and just splashed another pirate for his second kill!

Interesting...

(1) Sudden Game Existence Failure, as in "One moment I'm watching my missile streaking towards its target while my shields are being hammered, next I'm staring at my Windows desktop wallpaper wondering where my game went."

I've recently started a new Commander in a basic Cobra III, to see how 1.80 treats the fresh and vulnerable. Being also a creature of old habit, I didn't take the sensible option of jumping from Lave to Leesti, and milking the relatively safe run from Leesti to Diso; no, I went for the bright lights and better prices of Zaonce, and then to the primo (but slightly sketchy) Isinor-Ensoreus route. So far, I've managed to survive (i.e. no "Press Space Commander") without much difficulty. My tips for first trips include:

• Before leaving Lave, sell your missiles. All of them. If you need them in Zaonce (or Leesti, for that matter) then you're probably dead anyway. And for the cash you get, you can buy up another few TCs of something that will earn you a profit. Buy them back later, when you can afford to, sure, but extra cargo is a better defence, because:
• If you get rolled, like Cim says, watch the comms: pirates ("Rebellion" my Aunt Sally) would rather get a few canisters off you without a fight, than have to spend the time and effort of blowing you up, only to get a few canisters anyway. Again, as Cim says, take care how and where you drop them: you don't want to fling the cargo out along your route to the station. So far, I've only had to do this once, on a trip into Isinor. 2TC, it cost me. A bargain, frankly - especially since it was from a 5TC stash of Food bought previously on Isinor, and carried for the express purpose of buying off any brigand I couldn't outrun. Other pirates have demanded cargo from me, but 1) spotting suspicious groups at a distance has given me an edge in running from them, and 2) a sufficiency of good luck, where I've managed to flee into the sensor range of a Viper patrol, have meant that I've kept my cargo to myself. Still, though, I call that a pro tip: as soon as you can afford to, stick 5TC of the cheapest junk aside in your hold to pay any "toll". Don't forget, each time out, to cycle your cargo so it's the junk that's lined up for immediate jettison.

I made my first kill on my first trip into Isinor (although, to be honest, the derelict Boa I'd found wasn't fighting back ... still, though, a kill's a kill: and he had a C*15 bounty! Bonus!). But I didn't even try to fight anything moving until I had bought the following:

1) Cargo Bay Expansion. Not my usual first purchase, but it just panned out this way: I'd arrived in Isinor, made a healthy profit, and had enough to buy the Expansion and - crucially - fill the extra space with cheap Furs. Not counting, of course, my 5TC of pirate kibble. And anyway, Isinor doesn't sell what would normally be my first purchase, to wit:
2) Injectors. The Isinor-Ensoreus run is a long one, and it doesn't leave you with much fuel to burn, but even so, these things can and do make all the difference.
3) ECM. Don't start a shooting match without one.
4) Front Beam laser. Remember, folks, it's not as expensive as it looks: you get to sell the Pulse laser it's replacing. First trip out with my new gun, I met Gecko, a Mamba and a Sidewinder, who were duffing up a Cobra I. On previous trips, I'd have shed a pious tear and headed in the opposite direction, full pelt; this time, emboldened by the presence of an actual weapon on my ship, and not some glorified signal light, I intervened, successfully. My count went from 1 to 4.

Now I've got an Extra Energy unit, and another Beam laser on my tail, and 12 kills to my name, and a Fuel Scoop in case of Escape Pods. I'm still carrying 5TC of Freebooter Friskies, but so far, I've not needed to use them. Long may that continue!

<nods>

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:

Granted a pulse laser has only a 15km range...

That would be a 5km range.. you're thinking of a beam laser.

Disembodied wrote:

Still, though, I call that a pro tip: as soon as you can afford to, stick 5TC of the cheapest junk aside in your hold to pay any "toll". Don't forget, each time out, to cycle your cargo so it's the junk that's lined up for immediate jettison.
...
Not counting, of course, my 5TC of pirate kibble.

I suspect that ought to become part of the new standard Advice For New Commanders.. Perhaps Mr Gimlet should add a small paragraph about the subject to his homily..

"Pirate kibble".. I like that term. A lot. Destined to become part of the vernacular, I hope!

Advice for a new player: look at the parcel contracts on F4, they can be very handy for an early cash boost.
For example, a Jameson at Lave can find one paying over 400 Cr for two/three jumps - if you make it, of course.