I may be going slightly mad.......

[Bangbangduck]

Hi Guys

Spud42: Been looking at macro software. There is an option which I may understand in Linux. As for Joystick Yep It would be simple to wire up the micro switched stick (very retro ) But I'm used to proportional control from R/C flying.

If I understand correctly it is possible to run a PS/2 and a USB keyboard at the same time. So I should be able to use the one for planet searchs in game and file name saving. I think it's also possible to run a pair of USB keyboards on the same machine and spec there I/O independantly.

Norby: The problem is that as there is no 'action entry' in the plist for the rare SHIFT+CTRL+KEY I can't change the key stroke. Not a game killer there are ways and means I'm sure Oddly I could set this up via xboxdrv but that will only work with the controller. But it does show that it can be done.

Here's the latest bit of 'paperwork'. This is the matrix layout. I have blocked the groups of keys purely on the key quantity and the simplicity of the matrix wiring this would represent. The keyboard plist would have to be edited heavily but that is not a problem. The physical keys will be sprayed up and marked as their actual function.

I haven't blocked the menu nav/backup flight controls but they can be made up of remaing groups easily as regards the matrix wiring.

I can get PCB switches 6mmx6mmx5.5mm 100 for £8 on ebay inc postage. I can also etch my own PCB design.



BBD Totally Bonkers!

[spud42]

looking good... you are tempting me to try this as well...
just picked up a Rasp Pi second hand model b 512Mb for $30 AUD....

must keep my eye out for a G11 type Keyboard to use.... must finish ship.....first.... arrrggghhhh...

[Bangbangduck]

Cheers Spud42

There is one fly in the ointment. The Func keys can't be remapped but that just means bringing a seperate pair of lines into a group so no problem really.

Further reading and I have a vague idea based on what I have seen and read. As well as macros it is possible to use something called 'hid' I think it stands for hardware Identification. This means that each keyboard, you could go more than 2! can be given specific rolls in what the keys do because it can be treated seperately. This is what the 'real' flightsim guys do.

Other than that I could simplify the wiring by doing 2 keyboards. If PS/2 then one set would have a portion of the keys and the other the remaining keys. I think I can then splice the cables, that go to the PC, together. Still 5V to run though I'm a bit iffy about the current as this doubles but possibly a current limiting resistor in each power line would balance it out. Other than that........You can plug upto 3 USB keyboards in at once. Again if you use the hid it can have massive benefits. Or Just hack 2 up and plug them in as above but without the splicing query to worry about.

Just for fun I'd recommend it. I'm also pondering hacking another spare xbox controller. As in make your own joystick, throttle and rudder pedals whilst using the controller as the interface for the home built control structures. It's all been done before so it is doable.

Flightsim.com is full of great ideas from the blindingly simple to the 'you have to be gifted and monied'. There is one 747 setup where the keyboard is inside a box out of the way. With a panel of solinoids over it. remote switches, set up as per a 747 flight panel trigger the solinoids over the appropriate key to activate the key........ Bloody clever!

BBD positively fizzing with ideas..........wibble wibble wibble

[spud42]

ive seen some of the flight sim boys setups... some with 10 or 11 monitors with different functions going to each . forget the software but there was one that slaved laptops to act as extra views etc.... very costly , or can be... lol

HID is Human Interface Device applies to all input methods like joysticks,mice,keyboards,graphic tablets...

dont we only use the first 8 Fn keys? cant remember pressing anything over F8, but they do double up depending on mode. F1 being launch in docked mode and front view in flight mode.... just checked the plist and they are not there.... bummer.... must be hard coded into the core program..

[Bangbangduck]

Hi Spud42

I'm definately on a budget! There are some lovely setups out there though. Fortunately as the guys behind Oolite stuck to the original functionality it does mean we can keep such sims simple.... Even though we would all like a fullhouse setup I'd love a gimble frame in the back garden........with attached sick bucket to get the full flight dynamic.

Of course as the Func keys just seek to do the same as the number keys row it's not really a problem. It would have been nice to keep the matrix groups though. But these things are set to challenge!

I've just been doing a quick test in Oolite. The second thumstick currently uses only the x axis [YAW] but I've just set the throttle controls to use the y axis. It works great. Nice proportional movement. Of course because it's self centering it's a bit awkward but once ripped apart this can be fixed.

EDIT: Theres a lot of good info out there once you get in the groove. Toggle switches. Yes it can be done and very simply. A relay and a capacitor are used and what happens is when you throw the switch the whilst the cap charges current flows and the relay operates. Once the cap is charged the current flow ceases and the relay ceases to operate. Flick the toggle switch back and the cap discharges causing a current flow the relay operates until the cap has disharged and the current flow ceases. This takes milliseconds to happen so is safe and of course electrically isolated. The relay is of course wired to the key board matrix.

Other options - A simple circuit using a rotary encoder to operate a pair of keys. CW on a positive key action CCW will operate the opposite key of the pair. IE. Fix to the W and S keys for throttle control, advanced compass next/previous keys, Target next/previous keys. It looks like you can make the 'under the bonnet' stuff simple or slightly more involved.......

BBD

[staggerlee]

Just a thought, wouldn't it be possible to configure a tablet computer (iPad, Nexus 7, etc.) as a bluetooth keyboard, sending wireless signals to a computer? If so, you could design a touch screen interface for many buttons and go wild with the design — provided you had the tablet, that is. Wouldn't it be cool to have a dedicated weapons panel or something like that. Maybe I'll look into this...

Look: here's a similar concept for using a tablet to control audio MIDI on computers: http://hexler.net/software/touchosc

[maik]

Just a thought, wouldn't it be possible to configure a tablet computer (iPad, Nexus 7, etc.) as a bluetooth keyboard, sending wireless signals to a computer? If so, you could design a touch screen interface for many buttons and go wild with the design — provided you had the tablet, that is. Wouldn't it be cool to have a dedicated weapons panel or something like that. Maybe I'll look into this...

Look: here's a similar concept for using a tablet to control audio MIDI on computers: http://hexler.net/software/touchosc

Of course it's possible. Just doesn't quite match the requirement to be possible on a budget. Also lacks the tactile feedback, obviously. What I'd be much more interested in would be using a tablet as a second screen to Oolite.

[Bangbangduck]

Hi there

Oh yes it would be nice. Yoy could even do the star trek LCARS look. But this is outside the scope, not to say the budget I'm on

In my surfing of the net for inspiration it seems another sad twisted individual also had the idea of using a 4066 chip as part of a 'multi keystroke' driver. Though no diagrams were in evidance at this time. But I bet it's similar to how I've thought out my offering.

Also from the DIY 'Arcade' builders a small circuit that takes 2 PS2 keyboards and multiplexes them much the way the telephone system works

I may even play oolite for an hour or three at some point!

BBD

[Bangbangduck]

Hi......... Again

Well I plugged the keyboard matrix PCB into my PC to see if all was well. As a Simple test I used a piece of wire and reading the keyboard matrix list I drew up I used the wire to activate the letters and numbers of my PCs password followed by enter.

It took me 3 attempts. The first I was to slow and the password entry timed out

The second I was a bit shaky so ended up with double letters or numbers and then had to do the Backspace key entry........so it timed out again

The third I got it right and it works OK! Or at least I know I have mapped at least 8 letters and numbers correctly

Also revisited the triple key driving circuit. I might need it after all. I now have a usable design. It consists of a pair of 555 chips, a 4015 IC and the 4066 IC. The pair of 555s could be replaced by a 556 (this has 2 555s in it)

The first 555, on the left, is set to be monostable. That is it is a one shot pulse. Press the switch and the 555 goes high and stays high for a time determined by capacitor and resistors. If you hold the switch the circuit will still timeout but will not start again. You have to release the button for the circuit to respond to the button being pressed again.

This 555 powers up the second 555 via a transsistor switch. This 555 is in astable mode. That is it acts as a clock pulse (high,low,high,low,high,low, etc etc) This will run for only as long as the first 555 is high.

The clock pulse from the second 555 is sent to the 4015. For every high pulse 1 of 4 outputs go high and stays high until all four are high (on). each pin goes to one of the switches in the 4066 which are what is connected to the matrix decoder to get the multiple keystroke. Then the first 555 times out turning off the second 555 and also sends a reset pulse to the 4015 sending all its outputs low (off) ergo the 4066 switches are also off.



The timing is roughly 0.5 second ON with the first 555 The second 555 pulses at 10/second. So within the 0.5sec window 5 pulses happen. Only 4 are required but any pulse over this have no effect.

BBD

[Diziet Sma]

I may even play oolite for an hour or three at some point!

The Dark Side takes many forms.. feel free to help yourself to the cookies!

[Bangbangduck]

Cheers. Don't mind if I do <Chomp>

More brain work overnight/today. At some point something physical will happen!

Key, Keys, Keys! Primarily I've been sorting the keys into those that are hard coded or defined by there function as unavailable.

It still leaves us with a bucket load of keys to play with and if you have a number pad a handful more.

Gimi's Key Charts and software have been invaluable.

Heres a rough idea involving the throttle. A handle that slides back and forth with a button pad mounted infront. So regardless of the throttle position all the, in this case, nissile and combat systems are only a finger distance away. Plus Injector and hyperspace buttons. As I say this is only a rough.

As we have already worked out a full keyboard is still needed for searching the star charts and filenames. So some of the functions may well be left there rather than pulling them out for the sake of it.

So at this point If I go for the weapons and combat systems and ships equipment. Views will go on the joystick top. A DIY stick at that. Why? Well Why not? I'm currently working on the mechanics, on paper, for this.



BBD

[mossfoot]

I like where this is going

Do you intend to have a joystick as part of the setup, or have the controls strictly key based?

God, after using keyboard only all day it's a miracle anyone made Elite using one back in the day. GHAH!

[Bangbangduck]

Hi there

Oh yes! The ideas are bubbling under but need honing down and keeping on a realistic level.

Yes a joystick will be done. DIY of Course. I'm going to use the xbox controller PCB as the interface. Remove the axis gimbles and wire in my own pots for the bespoke joystick. It will be done as per a modern jet grip rather than WWII floor mounted control stick.

I will be looking at the pots on the gimbals to get some physical cues from to transpose to the bespoke unit.

The pots are 10K but the thumbsticks only move 60degrees in the X/Y direction. pots usually have a full range of 270 to 300degrees movement. So if the xbox controller pots are the same this means that only a small range of the total resistance available is being used. Possibly only 2 to 3K total. Once I have these out I can test them with my multimeter to get the actual range it is using.

To this end I can also wire in switches to the Dpad contacts and use these, after setting up in the xboxdrv config file, to change ships view. Also I can use a pair of button points to become the triggers rather than using the trigger points as these use a pot. buttons will be simpler to set up.

Oh and a foot system for yaw? Simple to do. Just use the X axis on the right thumstick. Again wire up an external pot of the correct value and link up to a system of either levers to move it or toothed wheels to set the tiller and pot working together.

All the above has been done before by the Flightsim chaps so it's all well documented and done to death as far as testing and reliability goes........ Subject to the human/insectiod/non specific species who builds it.

BBD

[Cody]

<chortles> Keep taking the cookies, amigo!

[spud42]

BBD

like very much... grin....

what are you proposing to build this out of? wood? plastic or metal?
like the idea of the entire control sliding with the throttle, i dont think i have seen this anywhere before.
Are you going to use a slider pot for that? placement is going to be fun though you dont want it to be too close when at 0 throttle or too much of a reach at full throttle...
i still reckon that a 4 way digital joystick is about right for the game considering its vintage...... i manage to fly ok with the keys but if there was a stick i think it would be better... is Oolite capable of using proportional controls? i mean if you use a joystick and just move it a little does it turn slowly but speed up the turn if you move the stick to its limit?



and it need a fire button like that!!!! lol