Split: Difficulty for new players

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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Disembodied »

It's a rough old life ...
Commander Nooby wrote:
Part the Third

Getting ready to leave Ensoreus, I take a last, long, lingering look at the prices for Narcotics: just Cr1.2 per TC, and there's 37 TC on sale: the profit could be enormous. But it's a little early in my career to pick up that sort of trouble. I grit my teeth, and stick to the plan. Computers. Nice, safe, legal, and survivable.

I arrive in Isinor, and all is quiet. I hit the torus and skim on in until I'm masslocked by a lone Python, the Starboat Hindmost. He's a trader, like me. I cruise past, and admire this elegant old lady of the spaceways. She's soon overhauled, and two more ships appear: an Adder, the Abram's Gibbet, and a Cobra III, the Flame of Sin. I have a bad feeling about the Flame of Sin ...

I'm right. I hate it when I'm right. The Flame of Sin picks me out as the prime target and swings in to attack. We exchange fire - I get in a few good licks and he blinks first. Unfortunately, he also launches a missile. We're closing fast, but I spot the blue spark of the missile's engine and - pfzt! - I've lasered it. Then the Beginner's Luck chants, "Incoming missile. Incoming missile." I think I might have hit one more of them but I'm not - the Flame of Sin is licking at my front shields again - they're red - they're gone. I can see a missile on the scanner, it's almost on me - turn, duck, accelerate - then BANG! the rear shield vanishes, as do two-and-a-half energy banks.

I quickly lock one of my own missiles onto the Flame of Sin and trigger it. "Launch," says the Beginner's Luck. She sounds calm, but I'm not. My missile soars away and the Flame of Sin is running. I jockey around, try to get him in my sights - careful, I don't want to shoot my own missile down. It's looping, swooping - FLASH! Got him. There's nothing left of the Flame of Sin but a smear of gas and two cargo canisters. I throttle down, and float alongside them: I'm going nowhere until my shields and energy banks are up to 100% again.

That's it - we're recharged, and I have to press on. Up ahead, I can see a large asteroid, and the glints of possibly two ships. Are they lurking? Are they in convoy? Only one way to find out ... I hit the torus again.

Two ships, right enough, ahead and to port ... and another four, in a knot, to starboard. I haven't identified them yet, I just need to ... the klaxon sounds, and one blip of the port-side pair burns red. I make a snap decision, and hightail it towards the group of four. Hopefully it's a convoy, and maybe I can get some assistance. A laser beam slices past me from astern. I'm closing in on the group of four, and just as the pursuing red blip turns yellow, one of the four yellow blips turns red! Six pirates! It's a trap!

I am running, running. The planet, and the station, are dead astern. Then closing in behind, one after another, those blips all turn red ... I have six hostiles on my tail, and some at least are overhauling me. I'm going to die, aren't I? I dodge, and duck, and weave, but they keep at me. I'm taking fire, my rear shield is down - I turn, and fight. I let rip with my last missile and see one Sidewinder, the Zealot, vanish in a fireball. I'm firing, and spinning - an instant of heat and light and—

—and I wake up, drenched in sweat, in my cabin, docked safe in Ensoreus station. It's a stressful job, being a star pilot. No wonder we have bad dreams.

When I finally launch, for real this time, part of me envies the short and easy ride awaiting the passengers and crew of the orbital shuttle Jungle of Ensoreus, just beginning their dip down to the planet. But I have a cargo, and a destination. I initiate the witchdrive, counting down with the countdown.

In Isinor space. Seems quiet. Nothing visible ahead, except a few asteroids. One might be close, or it might be big - big enough for a Hermit maybe, not that I have the cargo to interest them this time, but I might pick up a gram or two of cheap gems with my pocket change. Let's find out.

Just shy of the rocks, I'm masslocked by the Moray Medical Boat Clyde's Caravan. I give him a nod. Then a new ship slips onto the scope. I slow down, and sweep him. It's an Adder, the Thug's Torment, outbound for the witchpoint. A bounty hunter, in an Adder! You have to admire that sort of crazy.

The rocks are just rocks. I shoot a few, for target practice, and pocket money. Then the scanner clears, I'm out of masslock, and on we go.

Another masslock, another Moray Medical Boat - The Ribald. Good guys, the Moray Medicals. I peer ahead, and pick out the station, a gleaming speck at 10 o'clock above the planet. I think I can see another ship up ahead, too, at 4 o'clock, but it's a long way off. And now there's something else: three ships in a close little group. I scan one of them - a Cobra III, the Starship Gothic, and I'm already angling away, away. A Cobra III, in a convoy? They're pirates, for any money. And now they're moving in, three little dots in a row, and it's a toss-up whether they're keen on me or on The Ribald.

The klaxon - how I hate that sound! All three blips are zeroing in on me, and the lead blip is burning red. Good news for The Ribald, I suppose. A laser beam snaps across my bows: the one red blip is firing. I swing the Beginner's Luck and put all three dead astern, and glancing out the rear view I slap a target on the red blip, who's sniping at my rear shield. A Sidewinder, Captain Blood's Gold. Great. I can't outrun him, but maybe I can draw him far enough away from his friends that I can cut him up without getting toasted myself.

A bit of luck. Captain Blood's Gold is a lousy shot, and the third ship in this little bundle of joy is significantly slower than both the Sidewinder and the Cobra III Starship Gothic. I think I've managed to get more or less onto a bearing with the station without letting the Starship Gothic come into range, too. I might just survive this.

Dammit! I cut too much of a corner, and now Starship Gothic is in weapons range, too. One compensation: he's not much of a shot either. I spin and loop, flying spirals, trying to keep a visual fix on the station. I prime tube one, and lock it on to Captain Blood's Gold. Laser fire snips and snaps around me, picking at my aft shield. When it redlines, I bite the bullet and launch my first missile. It streaks away, and Captain Blood's Gold turns tail. I don't waste any time: I dodge and roll and try to get my rear shield back up. When I think I can risk t, I flip to the rear view and lock tube two onto Starship Gothic.

I can't see what's happened to Captain Blood's Gold: is he dead, or just on the run? A yellow blip slips over the rear scan horizon, and it's just me and Starship Gothic in a stern chase to the station. It's going to be a long one.

Roll, duck, dodge, spin, roll - keep that little shining jewel of the Isinor Coriolis in sight - roll, duck, dodge, spin, roll again, and all the while the Starship Gothic stabs fire at me from behind. It seems like I've been doing this forever, but gradually the station draws nearer. Finally the compass switches, and picks the station out as its primary target. But we're not home yet. The Starship Gothic has finally got his eye in and lands six strikes on my stern in quick succession.

I twist, and throttle back, and turn and fight. I shoot him square in the face. He doesn't like it - he spins away, and spits out a missile at me. I roll and send my own missile after him - maybe he's got an ECM and he'll bust both his and mine. I duck, and accelerate - got to keep his missile away - there's an explosion, my rear shield is gone, there's red lights everywhere, I'm down to half an energy bank - where's Starship Gothic? Still there, behind me, no sign of my missile - but his blip is yellow. I point the Beginner's Luck at the station and drive on.

My energy banks start to refill. Starship Gothic is still following me, but either he's out of range or he's lost all stomach for the fight. I arrow on, straight and sweet, the big friendly S of the station aegis lights up on my console, and I think I'm going to make it. I take no chances, though: I don't slow down at all for the docking manoeuvre. I cut right into the midpoint between buoy and station and haul back hard, and set the Beginner's Luck plumb on the dock, first time. Just as well, too, because Starship Gothic still has the hots for me, even though there's a Viper at the edge of scanner range, and the bastard lights me up a few times even as the dock swallows me. But - and here's some advice you can take to the bank - when you're fighting, fight; and when you're docking, dock. I'm in, I'm home, and I hope the Starship Gothic ploughs into a planet, pulling point-three-five.

What a way to earn a living. But I'm earning, I'll say that much! I sell the Computers for Cr100.8 per TC, yahoo - but it's bitter, bitter all the same: Narcotics are selling on Isinor today for Cr101.6! That's over two thousand credits I could have made, on one run ... Cr2,000, and every man's hand turned against me. I'm not equipped for that kind of heat, just yet. It brings a lump to my throat, though, all the same.

Think positive, though: I've got over Cr700 to my name, now. Less fuel. And - let's be sensible now - less the cost of four, count 'em, four missiles. I've still got Cr602.8 after all that, though. What's on offer? Furs, you say, at Cr48.4 per TC, you say? I don't need asking twice, and buy as much as I can afford: 12 TC in total. I've got Cr22 left, just Cr0.4 shy of the price of a canister of cheap Liquor. Buddy, can you spare two-fifths of a credit? I thought not. Never mind: I'll plough the lot into 8 TCs of rock-bottom Food at Cr2.0 per TC. I've finally filled the hold, to the brim, and still have Cr6.0 in change. Back to Ensoreus with this lot, I think, and we'll see where that gets me!
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Diziet Sma »

A rough old life indeed.. this is shaping up quite well. 8)
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Hueij »

What Diz said a couple of posts ago, this should be turned in a .pdf and included in the Oolite download package, Real great intro to the game.
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Cody »

Disembodied wrote:
... but it's bitter, bitter all the same: Narcotics are selling on Isinor today for Cr101.6! That's over two thousand credits I could have made, on one run ... Cr2,000, and every man's hand turned against me. I'm not equipped for that kind of heat, just yet. It brings a lump to my throat, though, all the same.
I couldn't resist that temptation with a Jameson a few months ago - and I pulled it off several times on the trot.
That Jameson was very soon established - but as a fugitive. This career choice is not recommended for beginners.
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Commander McLane »

I love how you rationalize the "Press Space Commander" moments into being nightmares while you're still docked. :D
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Disembodied »

I'm glad people are enjoying it - it really is just a transcript of what's been happening, each jump. Although I've only died twice so far (once, if you discount the initial witchdrive failure), my initial impressions are that the game is very, very hard. Both successful trips in to Isinor - which is a Confederacy, after all - have been made only by the skin of my teeth, and thanks to long familiarity with the controls, and a decent grasp of tactics (essentially, "run, but not in a straight line"). Both times I've been chased all the way to the aegis, and both times I've been attacked while docking, too. I'm not at all sure that, if Commander Nooby really was new to the game, he would have made it to Isinor at all yet.
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Cody »

Disembodied wrote:
... my initial impressions are that the game is very, very hard.
You think it's too hard for beginners, yes? My view hasn't changed - if the dice roll your way, it's okay.
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Diziet Sma »

Disembodied wrote:
I'm glad people are enjoying it - it really is just a transcript of what's been happening, each jump.
Strange as it sounds, that's part of what makes it so good. It's real, it's well told, and it's sprinkled with useful tips.
Disembodied wrote:
Although I've only died twice so far (once, if you discount the initial witchdrive failure), my initial impressions are that the game is very, very hard. Both successful trips in to Isinor - which is a Confederacy, after all - have been made only by the skin of my teeth, and thanks to long familiarity with the controls, and a decent grasp of tactics (essentially, "run, but not in a straight line"). Both times I've been chased all the way to the aegis, and both times I've been attacked while docking, too. I'm not at all sure that, if Commander Nooby really was new to the game, he would have made it to Isinor at all yet.
I'm inclined to agree.. and in order to gain yet another newcomer's perspective, I've managed to rope in my keen-gamer but nooby-to-Oolite flatmate to take a crack at Oolite and report on her experiences along the way. :twisted:
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Mad Dan Eccles »

It is hard for a noob, yes.

I think what we have to ask though, is that a bad thing? For me, the achievement at finally getting to 'Mostly Harmless' was something I haven't felt in a game for ... a long time. Since my F/A-18 Hornet days. Actually, if you think Oolite is hard as a beginner, you should try landing on a carrier in a decent flight sim. *That's* hard.

Maybe I'm attracted to games where there is a challenge of this magnitude, simply because I need to feel a sense of accomplishment. Yes, you're going to go through a whole pile of Jamesons when you first start, but you just re-spawn at your last station (if you've saved your game...). It's no biggie.

What's a biggie is when you've fought off two dozen pirates, collected thousands of Cr worth of precious metals and whatnot, and then mis-judge a rock hermit's entrance...
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Disembodied »

El Viejo wrote:
You think it's too hard for beginners, yes? My view hasn't changed - if the dice roll your way, it's okay.
I'm tending to think it's too hard, yes. I'm perfectly happy with the idea that the game should be demanding: many years ago I bought myself an Xbox (the original black Xcrate), and for a while I thought I must be some sort of gaming god ... then I realised that it's just that a great many commercial games are deliberately made really easy, so players will crack on through them, defeat them utterly, and then have to run out and buy a new variant on the same old thing. Oolite isn't like that, at all, and nor should it be.

But it is hard to even start. For many newcomers, just mastering the controls is hard, and docking is a nerve-shredding life-or-death experience. I don't think new players should have to rely on getting good dice-rolls just to take one single step forward in the game. And that's the rub of it: it doesn't seem to be being unlucky that's the problem; it's that I need to be lucky, and capable, to survive a trip to what should be a more than averagely safe, stable system.

Combat should be hard: again, I have no problem with that. But a new player flying an unmodified Cobra III isn't equipped for combat. At best, they might get to pop a few shots in the general direction of a bad guy before he and his pals laser and missile the new player to oblivion.

It's a challenging game. But the bar is set very high right now, and I don't see the need for it. Those who want an iron-hard game can have it, already: they can buy the Narcotics at Cr1.2, or try their hand at the Ensoreus-Zaalela run, or the Ensoreus-Ararus run. But for someone who wants to begin to learn how to start thinking about playing that sort of game, there's no way in except to launch, fly, get killed, reload, launch, fly, get killed, reload, launch, fly, squeak through that time maybe, rinse, repeat.

Having the option of a (usually) quiet run to e.g. Isinor doesn't diminish the game: rather, it lets beginners have a chance to learn how to fly, and how to dock, and gives them a chance to see a few sights, and get a bit of money coming in so they can buy some injectors and an ECM and maybe a Beam laser and then go out and find out that combat needs more than just a bit of kit ...
Diziet Sma wrote:
in order to gain yet another newcomer's perspective, I've managed to rope in my keen-gamer but nooby-to-Oolite flatmate to take a crack at Oolite and report on her experiences along the way.
Excellent - that'll be very interesting! I'll persevere with Commander Nooby, too. Maybe he's just been really unlucky so far, and maybe his next half-dozen runs to Isinor will be smooth and sweet. It'll only take maybe one more run to Ensoreus, back to Isinor, and back to Ensoreus again and he'll be able to get the fat black cats to fit him some injectors, which will improve the odds!
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by HAL »

El Viejo wrote:
Pluisje wrote:
Also being able to dock at injector speed helps.
Good fun, is that... as is docking at a rock hermit on torus!
I like using the torus on a hacker outpost, but that needs very careful alignment!

As for the difficulty, I have noticed NPC's getting a huge number of hits, and lasers with a faster pulse rate. It's like front and rear machine gun-lasers! They all seem to swarm, and fire at the same time, and it looks like a great big laser light show. "Press Space Commander"

I recently did my first level 3 hit as a bounty hunter, which seemed a little bit too easy... I was experimenting with the Armoury OXP, so maybe one of the gadgets from that had an indirect effect (I think I used a stun bomb, which made the laser fire slow down for about half a second). I did notice the mark dropped a Q-bomb, but maybe 7-8 bodyguards survived, and there was no explosion. I then used the injectors, and took them out one by one.
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Cody »

<nods>
Disembodied wrote:
I'll persevere with Commander Nooby, too. Maybe he's just been really unlucky so far...
I'd suggest starting a new Commander Nooby (several times, in fact) - he does seem to have been extraordinarily unlucky!
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Mad Dan Eccles »

HAL wrote:
El Viejo wrote:
Pluisje wrote:
Also being able to dock at injector speed helps.
Good fun, is that... as is docking at a rock hermit on torus!
I like using the torus on a hacker outpost, but that needs very careful alignment!
That reminds me--how do you manage to dock with a Hermit on torus? There's always a mining transport or a Cobra dicking around whenever I come across a Hermit.
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by Cody »

Mad Dan Eccles wrote:
... how do you manage to dock with a Hermit on torus? There's always a mining transport or a Cobra dicking around whenever I come across a Hermit.
Not always - you can easily smear yourself on an untended hermit if you ain't paying attention.
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
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Re: Split: Difficulty for new players

Post by cim »

Disembodied wrote:
Both successful trips in to Isinor - which is a Confederacy, after all
That's a couple of steps up the risk rating and probably should be tricky-to-fatal for a new player in a new ship, though. Isinor-Ensoreus is already one of the best trade routes for safe profit (Teanrebi-Tianve is the only better in Chart 1!). I don't have a problem with genuine new players having to stick to Leesti-Diso until they've got a few upgrades to their ship.

Thinking about it: this is where the Elite economic model doesn't help. Isinor-Ensoreus should be better than Leesti-Diso, but not that much better. It certainly shouldn't be better than Leesti-Riedquat, or equal to Anarlaqu-Zadies, in expected profit. OXP time, I think...
Mad Dan Eccles wrote:
It is hard for a noob, yes.

I think what we have to ask though, is that a bad thing?
Not as such - but the other side of it is that it gets very easy relatively quickly too. Even without particularly optimal decisions, you can probably have a full iron-ass (minus the mission-related equipment) by the time you're Dangerous ... and then you are almost never at risk, unless you add in difficulty-increasing OXPs. Really, "fore military laser + injectors" is enough to deal with almost every pirate pack in the core game.
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