Oolite Bulletins

I have noticed that missiles don't seem to do much damage in game. Perhaps it's the fact that I have increased my ship's defensive capabilites as much as possible, but it seems that taking a missile hit doesn't even decrease the shield bar significantly, as if I am just taking some kinetic damage from a normal collision with a piece of floating debris.
Would you agree to increase missile damage and/or make them "bypass" the shields?

Missile hits certainly cause shields to drop on my near-standard Cobra III - on occasion, they can even cause fatal damage!

ioannis wrote:

Perhaps it's the fact that I have increased my ship's defensive capabilites as much as possible

This is probably why missiles aren't hurting you much - do you have excessive OXP defensive capabilities?

What version of Oolite, and what is your approximate frame rate? (Shift-F)

(And yes, do you have any defensive tech beyond the Shield Boosters and Military Shield Enhancement)

ioannis wrote:

I have noticed that missiles don't seem to do much damage in game.<SNIP>

I certainly still have to worry about enemy missiles, however, I'm not so sure about my missiles against NPCs (I have never hit a target with a missile (ECM hardened), and gave up on them after a couple weeks playing the game).
Perhaps as El Viejo suggests, you have over-ironed your Iron Ass .

CommRLock78 wrote:

I have never hit a target with a missile (ECM hardened), and gave up on them.

I very rarely hit a target with a hardhead either - that ain't what they're for! They're for buying time!

El Viejo wrote:

CommRLock78 wrote:

I have never hit a target with a missile (ECM hardened), and gave up on them.

I very rarely hit a target with a hardhead either - that ain't what they're for! They're for buying time!

Of course - Thanks for the interesting insight EV - I thought they were rather pointless until considering that .
Edit:

Shipbuilder wrote:

Just out of interest what is considered poor, average and good frame rates ?

I'm curious about this as well. From what I've read, it seems like it's rather debated subject...

Hm, I forgot to mention my defensive arsenal.
I have Ironhide+ Ironhide military upgrade, Shield boosters, Shield Equalizer and Capacitors, Shield Cycler and the full upgrades for the shield on my Python Cruiser class. I usually fight at close range, and mostly use a missile when I am engaged with multiple opponents and wish to get one off my back while I take care of another. By the way, I've also noticed that there seems to be some sort of player guidance for the missiles, that is, if I keep a ship on my sights, the missile seems to find it much easier than if I completely let the missile hit it. This is very good, and it seems to demonstrate how a fire and forget weapon will do better when "guided".
I get hurt by military lasers and Beam lasers, but not really by missiles. What I've noticed is that the damage I take is pretty much equal to the damage I take when hit by a normal small object, ie, if I am at full speed and a missile catches me from my six I hardly take any damage, if I am hit right at twelve (right in the face) while at full speed I take quite a lot of damage (might even lose the ship, which used to happen with the Cobra Mk 3). Now, I understand that this is not really a bad thing, in fact it enhances realism (ie the missile tore right through the cockpit glass and exploded inside the pilot's cabin), yet i think that even if it hit in the rear of the ship it should take out at least the whole shield (depending on the missile type, of course). Kinetic damage (ie the fact that the speed at which the ship is hit is reduced, because the ship is also moving at full speed in the same direction) should be a factor for damage, of course (as is the case with real-life exocet missiles, for example) but the most significant damage should (IMHO) be done by the explosion of the warhead.
So, the question is, whether the missile is really just kinetic damage, or whether there is a "warhead" that adds to the damage.

There is a warhead. The damage target for a missile is around 260. Damage variance in 1.76 is potentially quite large depending on the kinetic component (or more precisely, how close the kinetic component gets the warhead to you before detonation)

Shields = 128
Boosters = +128
Mil Shield Enhancement = +128
Shield Equalizer ~= add the two shields together
Shield Capacitor ~= +64 per shield

So you've got about 900 points of defensive shields there, plus 400 points of ironhide armour if they get breached, and then you've got 7 (?) energy banks for another 450ish points of damage. Let's call it 1700 points total.

An iron-ass player (i.e. "with shields") Cobra III without OXPs can take 650, plus a bit more if the attacks come from different sides, and the intent is that can take a missile or two without being completely dead. That's basically as tough as a ship gets in the core game, and the missiles are balanced for that sort of shield/energy range. You're close to three times tougher ... so you're not generally going to notice regular missiles. Either increase the warhead size of the standard missiles, or install a "bigger missile" OXP for the NPCs to use, if you want them to be more dangerous.

El Viejo wrote:

CommRLock78 wrote:

I have never hit a target with a missile (ECM hardened), and gave up on them.

I very rarely hit a target with a hardhead either - that ain't what they're for! They're for buying time!

Try keeping the cross hair on the target (assuming lasers are too hot to fire, so you can't shoot them) it will go a long way in improving missile target pathfinding.

cim wrote:

There is a warhead. The damage target for a missile is around 260. Damage variance in 1.76 is potentially quite large depending on the kinetic component (or more precisely, how close the kinetic component gets the warhead to you before detonation)

Shields = 128
Boosters = +128
Mil Shield Enhancement = +128
Shield Equalizer ~= add the two shields together
Shield Capacitor ~= +64 per shield

So you've got about 900 points of defensive shields there, plus 400 points of ironhide armour if they get breached, and then you've got 7 (?) energy banks for another 450ish points of damage. Let's call it 1700 points total.

An iron-ass player (i.e. "with shields") Cobra III without OXPs can take 650, plus a bit more if the attacks come from different sides, and the intent is that can take a missile or two without being completely dead. That's basically as tough as a ship gets in the core game, and the missiles are balanced for that sort of shield/energy range. You're close to three times tougher ... so you're not generally going to notice regular missiles. Either increase the warhead size of the standard missiles, or install a "bigger missile" OXP for the NPCs to use, if you want them to be more dangerous.

Hm this seems to explain some things.

or more precisely, how close the kinetic component gets the warhead to you before detonation

So, due to my speed, detonation occurs farther from my ship, thus reducing the damage, because when the explosion occurs I cover some distance away from the explosion by the time the blast wave gets to me, plus my speed is reduced from the speed of the blast wave, "softening" the bast wave impact. Interesting.

ioannis wrote:

El Viejo wrote:

CommRLock78 wrote:

I have never hit a target with a missile (ECM hardened), and gave up on them.

I very rarely hit a target with a hardhead either - that ain't what they're for! They're for buying time!

Try keeping the cross hair on the target (assuming lasers are too hot to fire, so you can't shoot them) it will go a long way in improving missile target pathfinding.

Hmm... I don't believe that for one second, and more to the point, as I said above, I use them to buy time, not kills!

El Viejo wrote:

ioannis wrote:

El Viejo wrote:

I very rarely hit a target with a hardhead either - that ain't what they're for! They're for buying time!

Try keeping the cross hair on the target (assuming lasers are too hot to fire, so you can't shoot them) it will go a long way in improving missile target pathfinding.

Hmm... I don't believe that for one second, and more to the point, as I said above, I use them to buy time, not kills!

I'm thinking the Old-man knows best, but I'll give that a try, however, I think the point is clear that they are most appropriately used for keeping an NPC busy while you take care of another with lasers .

Personally, the only pylon weapon I mount is a cascade mine for extreme emergency. The other three pylons hold salvage missiles and a fuel tank, also rarely used. I rely on lasers, evasive injecting, and occasionally turret fire to finish them off.

Rese249er wrote:

Personally, the only pylon weapon I mount is a cascade mine for extreme emergency. The other three pylons hold salvage missiles and a fuel tank, also rarely used. I rely on lasers, evasive injecting, and occasionally turret fire to finish them off.

I too only carry a couple q-mines and the rest (I think eight) mounts I use for fuel tanks, which I don't use very much anymore since I removed my Caddy's turrets, allowing me to make use of fuel stations again .
I prefer not having the auto turrets - if I get credited for a kill, I want to be sure I made the kill myself, not my turrets . My main tactic for 3 or more attackers is playing sharp shooter (no Sniper gear here) while keeping distance (about 12 km). Usually I slow way down, too, in order to slow down relative velocity, and give me time to unload with the front laser, then go retrograde as necessary and use the aft laser.
I won't hesitate to use a q-mine if I'm attacked by some ridiculously large group of angry mourners in Random Hits (which can be up to about 50-75 ships) .

CommRLock78 wrote:

I too only carry a couple q-mines and the rest (I think eight) mounts I use for fuel tanks, which I don't use very much anymore since I removed my Caddy's turrets, allowing me to make use of fuel stations again .
I prefer not having the auto turrets - if I get credited for a kill, I want to be sure I made the kill myself, not my turrets . My main tactic for 3 or more attackers is playing sharp shooter (no Sniper gear here) while keeping distance (about 12 km). Usually I slow way down, too, in order to slow down relative velocity, and give me time to unload with the front laser, then go retrograde as necessary and use the aft laser.
I won't hesitate to use a q-mine if I'm attacked by some ridiculously large group of angry mourners in Random Hits (which can be up to about 50-75 ships) .

The only time I actually let enemies close enough for turrets is when I've overheated my front laser and the bogey's throwing sparks.
As for the turrets keeping you from refuel stations, there's an OXP for that... Universal Turret Toggler, by Solonar.