Oolite Bulletins

Posted: **Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:34 pm**

Hello all,

ok, I am one of the old ones. I played Elite for Commodore 64. I was crazy enough to write a letter to Ian Bell and David Braben after I reached Elite status because I didn't find the postcard to enter the competition in the game box. That game changed my life and vision of videogames.

However, I never played all the several sequels. Elite was Elite for me, no Frontier or any other name. I forgot the game, and lived happily ever since...

A friend of mine told me about Oolite last summer. I downloaded it five months ago but I actually installed it only this week.
Well, I don't know how many people are behind it but I can tell it is a great work. I am afraid I'll become addicted again. I have not installed any OXP yet, I am a purist in this sense and would like to play the strict mode first. But men, my congratulations to you all, really from my heart.

I played for a few hours yesterday, and have noticed that docking manually is far easier than the original version. Those 4 flashing lights on the back wall help a lot in keeping the rotation.
While docking is easier, the AI of the dogfight is more complicated. Outmaneuvering the pirates is difficult, and the Police is almost impossible. I like that, after all I read somewhere in this forum that Oolite wants to stand apart from Elite, this is another game, not a faithful representation of the old game. I agree on that, keep going forward.

I do have a question, however. Since I am not native English I'll try to be as simple as possible to be understood.

With the standard keyconfig.plist, try that:
- keep pressed W and S at the same time, and observe the Speed gauge: it should stand still. Release both keys.
- keep pressed the cursor controls for pitch down/pitch up simultaneously, and observe the crosshairs. Release both keys.
- Do the same with roll clockwise/roll anticlockwise controls. In the last two cases you should see the crosshairs moving even when the two keys are both pressed.

Now, if you have noticed what I described and can confirm to me that the crosshairs keep moving even when two buttons that should neutralise themselves are pressed, please continue with my little experiment.

By editing the keyconfig.plist (remember to make a copy and put it into AddOns/Config/ folder) assign as follows:

Code: Select all

key_roll_left				= "n";	
key_roll_right				= "m";
key_pitch_forward			= "s";
key_pitch_back				= "x";
key_yaw_left				= 253; // left arrow
key_yaw_right				= 252; // right arrow

key_increase_speed			= 255; // up arrow
key_decrease_speed			= 254; // down arrow

Now, press the up arrow and down arrow simultaneously and observe the Speed gauge. Does it move? To me, the speed bar doesn't move.
Press s and x simultaneously. Do crosshairs keep moving? To me, they keep moving.
Press n and m simultaneously. Do crosshairs keep moving? To me, they keep moving.

If my experience is common to you, can please someone explain to me why this is happening, and if this can be avoided? It is not a matter of keyboard, because with the standard keyconfig the letters for Speed were neutralising themselves and the bar didn't move. Also, the cursor control keys for pitch up and down in the standard keyconfig make the crosshairs move, but if assigned to Speed the same two keys neutralise themselves and the bar stands still.
Why the "movement" controls don't allow the ship's nose to stand still?

Sorry for being so verbose in my first post. I'll keep quiet in the future, promised.

I wish you good luck in these dangerous galaxies, and thank you for your attention.

Posted: **Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:15 pm**

Pamir Bidou - Welcome to the friendliest board this side of Riedquat.

Unfortunately I am not able to help with the keyconfig query but I'm sure their will be someone along shortly who will be able to advise.

I have not installed any OXP yet, I am a purist in this sense and would like to play the strict mode first.

I note your comments regarding oxps but may I suggest that you look at Griff’s shipsets as these don't change the way the game plays or introduce new ships/items they simply replace the standard ships, stations etc with some really great looking models.

See here for more info http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Griff_Industries

Posted: **Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:33 pm**

Hi Pamir Bidou and welcome to the happy bunch of addicts spawned by this tribute to Elite!

Well, fascinating - I have to say I'd never noticed that particular little gem! ...but I also have no idea why that should be, but I'm sure there'll be someone along soon who can explain what is happening. Hhhmmm... you may just have picked up on a long-standing bug that has eluded others, or something known but unsolvable! We'll see...

I'll have to recommend BGS and Griff's shipsets right from the outset - as has been said about Griff's, they don't change the game-play, but make for a very handsome game.

Posted: **Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:56 pm**

Welcome to the boards!

The reason for this behaviour is to do with a detail of the way keyboard pitch and roll work. Accelerate and decelerate are symmetrical. If you press both, it will do both, and the net effect will be zero, as the acceleration and deceleration rates are identical.

Roll and pitch are not. If you press the turn key opposite to the direction your ship is currently turning in, then your ship will rapidly accelerate to level flight much faster than it accelerates out of level flight the other way. Easy to demonstrate by pressing roll right for a few seconds, then releasing it while lightly tapping roll left.

So, you press "left" and "right". Left gives you a slight roll left. Right gives you a much faster roll right, as you are already rolling left. So, the net effect is a slight roll to the right.

Posted: **Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:19 am**

Ha Pamir,

Welcome aboard, You're gonna amuse yourself alot!

Posted: **Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:35 am**

Welcome Pamir!

I suggest you may over time reconsider regarding OXPing... I played Vanilla and then added OXPs to make the game play suit my style once I was confident in my ability to fly using a keyboard only... I found that I liked the opportunity to guard traders on their journeys, see a civil war happen in space and join in, have deep space pirates, refuel at the fuel station, deliver extra cargo and intensifying the Thargoid war so I see a lot more of them and can help the Navy as a reserve, although having just had a Thargoid Carrier arrive as an extra surprise to a known Thargoid invasion force did lengthen my last engagement...

Here's hoping your playing experience is Ooh so good...

Posted: **Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:59 am**

Hi Pamir, and welcome.
You are certainly not alone in preferring to play a 'pure' game, although as you will see some of our members do also transform the game into something totally different by using many OXPs. My personal preference is for 'pure', although I would urge you to take a look at some of the eye-candy OXPs sometime. These simply add improved graphics to the game without changing it in any meaningful way, so you get all the joy of playing the game you used to enjoy all those years ago but with it looking more like you had to imagine it did. The best of both Worlds.

Posted: **Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:44 am**

With these comments about adding Griff's shipset to the game, one problem I believe is that in Strict mode, no OXPs work.

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 am**

Hello all,

thank you for your warm welcome.

I have installed the eye-candy Griff's shipset, and I have also edited the file to have docking authorisation requests, so I am already beyond the "strict game" version.
I am also interested in Lave Academy, since it could be a very nice approach for new players who have never played before.

Up to this point, here are my observations:
- Griff's ships and stations are very very nice, but the Icosahedron is not repainted, it seems. Anyway, I spent some time chasing ships and leveling my speed with theirs to look at them. However, since I installed Griff's images, the stations have lost the flashing lights in the back wall and I have scraped my ship and lost cargo many times after that change. Pity, since I must use the Docking computer now, but...
- ...but the Docking Computer never meets the 2-minute deadline of the docking window after the clearance. Regardless if I put the ship at the Nav Buoy in perfect alignment and then ask the authorisation, the DC takes more than 2 minutes to dock. If I press Shift+C it takes 20 minutes... (Btw, where do I see if I am fined for docking later?)
- the current standard layout of keys could cause several problems: the "dump cargo" is too near the Speed keys, and it happened to me to dump canisters in front of the docking bay while trying to slow down. Unfortunately, I had not the time to scoop the cargo back into my ship because the Station's crew was faster than me.

I think I will reorganise the layout in my keyboard and if and when I come to a solution that satisfies me I can make it public for all.
However, for me piloting is uncontrollable. I have tried to move with mouse, joystick, and keyboard. All 3 don't allow me to keep the nose still. I have read the forums and have learnt about an experimental feature for keyboard precision. I haven't tried that trunk yet, but imho it is not the correct solution to the problem if you are going to lose performance. The simplest solution would be to have two opposite accelerating directions nullify each other. cim was very clear on the phenomenon I noticed, and I remember that it was a pleasure to fly with the old Elite, whereas the pain was to stay alive. Here it is quite easy to stay alive (just avoid the main traffic lane from witchspace buoy to planet) but it is difficult to pilot.

About the 3 lessons of the Lave Academy, they are really good. The teachers didn't realise that I didn't destroy all the drones, they were only after my shortest time, but I know I was not able to kill the drones.

Ok, this is what I've noticed in a couple of hours of play. I haven't played much as you can see, and I know I am the newly arrived here. Please don't mistake me, I have not come here to criticise or claiming that now that I have come everything must be done according to what I say. My intention is not this. My intention is to take advantage of my first impressions to give feedback on some issues. It usually happens that the newbies notice things that are skipped by the veterans. I'd like to contribute somehow to the debate, and not to create conflicts.

Smooth docking to you all,
Pamir

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:09 am**

Pamir Bidou wrote:

I have installed the eye-candy Griff's shipset, and I have also edited the file to have docking authorisation requests, so I am already beyond the "strict game" version.
I am also interested in Lave Academy, since it could be a very nice approach for new players who have never played before.

- Griff's ships and stations are very very nice, but the Icosahedron is not repainted, it seems.

Word to a fellow new kid (well, in this context at least

).
It's a good sign to see other new players rolling in, it's the sign of a healthy game (although this community is obviously thriving and pretty awesome regardless).

For the unpainted Ico issue I switched to this https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9306 alongside Griffs ships.

It seems to be using Griff's Coriolis texture across all the types and adds a couple of interesting new shapes.
The Ico actually stands out as one of the best looking stations with this oxp applied (relative to the limited amount of examples I've seen).

I originally wanted to use the PA Groove stations but they seem to override the slower rotation of delightful docking oxp and I gave up trying to find the right thing to edit. :/

I agree with your point about the cargo jettison being so close to the throttle, I learned that lesson the expensive way but I think it's probably easy enough to reassign keys, I'm hoping to get throttle assigned to my side mouse buttons (m4, m5 or whatever).

Anyway yeah, welcome indeed, we found a good game here I think.

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:27 am**

Pamir Bidou wrote:
...
Up to this point, here are my observations:
- Griff's ships and stations are very very nice, but the Icosahedron is not repainted, it seems. Anyway, I spent some time chasing ships and leveling my speed with theirs to look at them. However, since I installed Griff's images, the stations have lost the flashing lights in the back wall and I have scraped my ship and lost cargo many times after that change. Pity, since I must use the Docking computer now, but...

As superbatprime pointed out, dertiens ZGrOovy stations do add to Griff's stations. If you have a GFX card that can handle full shaders then also install the ELS version to help with manual docking.

Pamir Bidou wrote:
- but the Docking Computer never meets the 2-minute deadline of the docking window after the clearance. Regardless if I put the ship at the Nav Buoy in perfect alignment and then ask the authorisation, the DC takes more than 2 minutes to dock. If I press Shift+C it takes 20 minutes... (Btw, where do I see if I am fined for docking later?)

Auto docking should automatically ask for clearence. Ignore the fact it takes more than 2 minutes, you won't be fined. Any fines you do get will be shown immediately on docking.

Pamir Bidou wrote:
- the current standard layout of keys could cause several problems: the "dump cargo" is too near the Speed keys, and it happened to me to dump canisters in front of the docking bay while trying to slow down. Unfortunately, I had not the time to scoop the cargo back into my ship because the Station's crew was faster than me. I think I will reorganise the layout in my keyboard and if and when I come to a solution that satisfies me I can make it public for all.
However, for me piloting is uncontrollable. I have tried to move with mouse, joystick, and keyboard. All 3 don't allow me to keep the nose still. I have read the forums and have learnt about an experimental feature for keyboard precision. I haven't tried that trunk yet, but imho it is not the correct solution to the problem if you are going to lose performance. The simplest solution would be to have two opposite accelerating directions nullify each other. cim was very clear on the phenomenon I noticed, and I remember that it was a pleasure to fly with the old Elite, whereas the pain was to stay alive. Here it is quite easy to stay alive (just avoid the main traffic lane from witchspace buoy to planet) but it is difficult to pilot.

I have this as my keyboard configuration. Just place it in a file called keyconfig.plist in a directory named Config in your AddOns directory. It re-defines the dump cargo to the number '8' key. Apart from that, everything else is the same.

Code: Select all

{
	key_roll_left				= 253;		// left arrow
	key_roll_right				= 252;		// right arrow
	key_pitch_forward			= 255;		// up arrow
	key_pitch_back				= 254;		// down arrow
	key_yaw_left				= ",";
	key_yaw_right				= ".";

	key_increase_speed			= "w";
	key_decrease_speed			= "s";
	key_inject_fuel				= "i";

	key_fire_lasers				= "a";
	key_weapons_online_toggle	= "_";
	key_launch_missile			= "m";
	key_next_missile			= "y";
	key_ecm						= "e";

	key_prime_equipment			= "N";
	key_activate_equipment		= "n";

	key_target_incoming_missile	= "T";
	key_target_missile			= "t";
	key_untarget_missile		= "u";
	key_ident_system			= "r";

	key_scanner_zoom			= "z";
	key_scanner_unzoom			= "Z";

	key_launch_escapepod		= 27;		// escape
	key_energy_bomb				= "\t";		// tab

	key_galactic_hyperspace		= "g";
	key_hyperspace				= "h";
	key_jumpdrive				= "j";

	key_dump_cargo				= "8";
	key_rotate_cargo			= "R";

	key_autopilot				= "c";
	key_autodock				= "C";
	key_docking_clearance_request	= "L";

	key_snapshot				= "*";
	key_docking_music			= "s";

	key_advanced_nav_array		= "^";
	key_map_home				= 303;		// Home
	key_map_info				= "i";

	key_pausebutton				= "p";
	key_show_fps				= "F";
	key_mouse_control			= "M";
	key_hud_toggle				= "o";

	key_comms_log				= "`";
	key_next_compass_mode		= "\\";

	key_cloaking_device			= "0";

	key_contract_info			= "?";

	key_next_target				= "+";
	key_previous_target			= "-";

	key_custom_view				= "v";

	key_dump_target_state		= "H";
}

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 am**

Pamir Bidou wrote:
However, for me piloting is uncontrollable. I have tried to move with mouse, joystick, and keyboard. All 3 don't allow me to keep the nose still. I have read the forums and have learnt about an experimental feature for keyboard precision. I haven't tried that trunk yet, but imho it is not the correct solution to the problem if you are going to lose performance. The simplest solution would be to have two opposite accelerating directions nullify each other.

Keyboard: In practice it probably is a control bug, and I'll have a look at how easy a fix would be, but pressing neither key should give you level flight in the meantime.
(The new keyboard precision feature is extremely easy to turn on and off, so you will be able to choose between precision and performance depending on what you need that second ... but trunk is not a stable system so we don't recommend it for actually playing the game.)

Mouse: I could never get the hang of that, either. Right mouse button re-centres the mouse, so you might have some luck constantly holding that down unless you want to turn, but even with that I couldn't use it. On the other hand, some pilots use nothing else.

Joystick: I've not used one, but it should be possible to configure a 'dead zone' around the centre of the joystick, in which no turn signal is sent. It sounds like yours may be configured too small, but you'll have to wait for someone who uses them to recommend how to recalibrate.

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:42 am**

I became a big fan of dual analogue control game pads (I had a Firestorm 2) - One stick for roll and pitch, the other stick for yaw - all felt very natural after a while, it was difficult to use anything else afterwards.

(I was a fan of the mouse control in Freelancer - two modes - the first kept you straight and level, but allowed you to move the gunsight about within the confines of the screen very quickly, the second, locked the gunsight front and centre, but gave you control over the flight vector of your ship, slower to react to your inputs, because you were moving the whole ship, but made you harder to hit. Learning when best to switch between the two, was all part of the fun/appeal)

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:35 pm**

I'm using a Thrustmaster Dual analog 3.
I'm happy with it, although the precision could be better. Also in precision-mode it's a bit choppy. I do not know whether this is due to the game or on the gamepad. Or maybe due to the OS? I'm using Debian Testing.

I heard, the Logitech Rumble Pad 2 should be very good. Any one here using this Pad?

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:03 pm**

I've used an old Logitech Wingman Rumblepad. Worked quite well. Still use the keyboard as this comes quite naturally to me.

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