Oolite Bulletins

Musings about stuff that I could do to the source code for my own personal pleasure (and are not meant to ever become part of Oolite)

I've created this thread separate from the original (which can be found here) to discuss and post up the results and findings of various tweaks that can be accomplished in the source code. It has become increasingly apparent that a few members of the community that have been here for a long time are getting increasingly disturbed and emotional at the idea that my little tweaks and hacks are being proposed as modifications for the actual game and feel I have broken the unwritten status quo. Although 'some' of what I have found 'could' be incorporated into future releases I do not believe anything that has currently been discussed (apart from 'maybe' Turret tweaking to allow sensible targeting/distances and a 'possible' discussion on OXP-able starting locations/settings for harder and easier games) could/should be part of the public release.

I am of course not a developer but just an avid Oolite fan who has been taking apart the source code to see what new ideas can be played out. This has already lead to the discovery of how to add more galaxies without breaking the scripting codes, and starting to lead onto OXP-able starting locations/settings for harder and easier games. However more un-orthodox ideas have also been played with, such as increasing and decreasing the jump distance on the hyper drive, and creating omni-directional lasers for the player like the Thargoid laser.

These kinds of ideas, although funny and mildly entertaining, are the sorts that I believe scare a lot of people into thinking that they are being proposed as ACTUAL changes to the game. They are not, and are merely experiments. The main reason for experimenting with lasers, for example, was to see if new weapons could be incorporated into the game. Also, to see if a playable version of a Thargoid ship complete with weapons could be created for new missions involving the player piloting a captured Thargoid vessel, such as inn Frontier and FFE.

So this thread has been created to first, assure the older members of the community that I am not, for any reason, suggesting that anything I have played with or discovered should in fact be put forward as a suggestion for integration with the public release, unless there was a significant demand that it be proposed seriously. Also, to remind newer members of the community that these ideas are more for personal enjoyment and testing purposes. And lastly, for those in the community that are interested in playing around with new ideas in the code and sharing our results and findings. I also feel that I have, unintentionally, stolen the main purpose of Wildeblood's thread which was to discuss different galaxy seeds and why the scripting would break when using them. Now that I have solved that particular issue and provided coding that allows new galaxies and scripting for them, I feel that question is answered.

Therefore, I put it to the members of the community interested in discussing ideas that are in no way meant to be actual proposals for changing the game to ask and discuss ideas that could be possible in the source. If after an idea is tweaked successfully enough that all parties are happy with it, it 'could' be put forward as a suggestion. But any other more unorthodox ideas are welcome, as this isn't a suggestion thread just a discussion thread. Don't be afraid to mention something you feel others might shout you down about, nothing here is being put forward it’s merely a discussion...

(Thank you to Command McLane for the title of this thread!)

So your omni-d laser... could it be put into turret form? A low-power automated point-defense system for a capital ship maybe?

The omni-drectional lasers are actually just the Thargoid Laser but with code added to it so that it can be equiped onto the player ship. Although I know the Thargoid laser works with NPC ships I have not been able to get it work properly with the player ship, as it doesn't cause any damage. I'm not sure it could be attached to a turret, as turrets tend to just be for plasma weapons. But you could create a ship that has the Thargoid laser and that would serve the same purpose, probably without any code hacking. I would imagine an OXP could accomplish this, but I am not 100% sure on that. Again, I wanted a player version of the Thargoid Laser to see if I could then try to convert the standard Thargoid ship into a playable ship, for future mission ideas...

A quick question for anyone who knows about models, but how big is the standard or Griff Thargoid model in relation to a docking port, and could it fit through? I know the one in Frontier and FFE could fit into the docking bays, or even land on te landing pads on the planet surfaces, but I remember it being a lot larger than other player ships. Also, if it is too big, would it be hard to shrink it slightly so it could fit through the docking port?

Pleb wrote:

A quick question for anyone who knows about models, but how big is the standard or Griff Thargoid model in relation to a docking port, and could it fit through? I know the one in Frontier and FFE could fit into the docking bays, or even land on te landing pads on the planet surfaces, but I remember it being a lot larger than other player ships. Also, if it is too big, would it be hard to shrink it slightly so it could fit through the docking port?

It's all on the wiki: Standard docking ports are 192x64x256, and Thargoid warships are 180x40x180, so you could just about fit one in.

cim wrote:

It's all on the wiki: Standard docking ports are 192x64x256, and Thargoid warships are 180x40x180, so you could just about fit one in.

Ah sorry should have checked on there first. I like the idea of piloting a Thargoid ship, but that sounds like it could be achieved easilly enough with an OXP. Now if I could just get the Thargoid lasers to work on a player ship, I could produce for my own enjoyment (and anyone else willing to play around with the code on their own version) a fully working playable Thargoid ship.

Pleb wrote:

A quick question for anyone who knows about models, but how big is the standard or Griff Thargoid model in relation to a docking port, and could it fit through? I know the one in Frontier and FFE could fit into the docking bays, or even land on te landing pads on the planet surfaces, but I remember it being a lot larger than other player ships. Also, if it is too big, would it be hard to shrink it slightly so it could fit through the docking port?

In fact, there is (at least)  one OXP that gives you the opportunity to fly a Thargoid Warship (although strictly speaking it's a replica, not the real thing). And I believe that  another OXP does very much the same.

I just checked and the ones in the 'griff normalmapped' shipset fit OK too

That's a front and side view of the standard oolte dock (in white) and a griff Thargoid (in black)

That's great, thanks Griff and Commander McLane at least I now know that the ship itself is suitable for player use. I don't think I would be able to reverse-engineer (hack the code) to produce launchable Thargons but there must be a way of making the Thargoid Laser cause damage when fired from a player ship... Back to the drawing board!

Pleb wrote:

That's great, thanks Griff and Commander McLane at least I now know that the ship itself is suitable for player use. I don't think I would be able to reverse-engineer (hack the code) to produce launchable Thargons

They're carried on the warship's pylons. A player-carried one would need a tweaked AI, but I'm fairly sure has already been done in some OXPs.

Pleb wrote:

but there must be a way of making the Thargoid Laser cause damage when fired from a player ship... Back to the drawing board!

Compare the WEAPON_THARGOID_LASER entry in [player fireMainWeapon] to the similar entry in ShipEntity.

Pleb wrote:

I don't think I would be able... to produce launchable Thargons...

That is probably doable

Commander McLane wrote:

And I believe that  another OXP does very much the same.

Errm I don't think it does... If it does then I missed it!

cim wrote:

They're carried on the warship's pylons. A player-carried one would need a tweaked AI, but I'm fairly sure has already been done in some OXPs.

Well that would be an advantage, it would also create some realism with having a fully working playable Thargoid ship. The Thargons are robotic ships so they should be part of a captured vessel I believe. I will look into including this in my Thargoid player ship.

cim wrote:

Compare the WEAPON_THARGOID_LASER entry in [player fireMainWeapon] to the similar entry in ShipEntity.

That's how I managed to get the weapon to work on the player ship, and only one entry had to be modified slightly as the wording was different but the same in the difference. But still it did not work as it should. I will work on it again later when I get home, would be nice to have a fully working Thargoid laser on my ship. I will probably release an OXP as well though that just has a green Militray Laser on it instead. Make it available from Tech Level 15 systems and causes the player to have a Fugitive status at all times!

Pleb wrote:

I will probably release an OXP as well though that just has a green Militray Laser on it instead. Make it available from Tech Level 15 systems and causes the player to have a Fugitive status at all times!

Perhaps also make it scan as a Thargoid?

Rese249er wrote:

Perhaps also make it scan as a Thargoid?

The player entity (you) has to have a scan class of player otherwise the program wouldn't work. The Thargoids are coded to attack everything that doesn't have a scan class of Thargoid. If anything I'd want to make it so everyone attacks you, to make having a Thargoid ship a hard thing not an easy thing. Otherwise what would the point in having an ironass if no one wants to fight you?