An Easy/Fun Mode? (& other suggestions)

[Nic]

This suggestion might be shot down in flames, but here's my idea.

A selectable easy mode for the "twitch" gamers out there. The issues i've encountered (as a new "twitch gaming windows" user) are:

1) The amount of time it takes from station to station as a new user. The mass locking that occurs is very infuriating. I found myself sitting and watching tv once i'd been mass locked by the planet as I go towards the station. If you could override the mass locking (as long as no enemies are present) then I think it may speed up the game and enjoyment enormously for people that don't have much time or don't feel like investing too heavily in oolite.

2) The laser temperature takes too long to cool down when in a large dogfight. I found myself far more concerned about making sure the temperature wasn't too high than actually dogfighting with the enemy. Especially as if the enemy is any distance away he is only a few pixels on the screen. Maybe this could be added as purchased "cooling fins" to be bought as mentioned on another post (?)

3) Automatic saving of the price list for easy reference once you have visited a system. At present you either end up remembering or writing the prices down on a piece of paper.

::The above are the "Easy Mode" suggestions, below are other, more general, suggestions::

4) Have more diversity in price depending on your area in the galaxy. At present their isn't much of a necessity to travel far and wide for a good trade route....This would require more thinking, but I always felt it was a weakness of the original elite.

I could go, and although a lot of these things have probably been covered before, I am in a position where I could easily make the above modifications and release a build/source for people to test relatively easily.

My descriptions are pretty brief so please ask me to elaborate if you wish. Also, if you think these suggestions are rubbish and would rather try and code something that people have already decided on as being good and necessary let me know.

Thanks,
-Nic

[Arexack_Heretic]

1) there is the microjumping using the red buttion marked 'J' on your Cobra MkIII console.
This does exactly do what you discribed, make a small jump when no ships are nearby.
Perhaps fresh pilots should be advised by a friendly merchant about the redbutton?

2) I agree on the fast heating bit.

3) Prices change everytime you enter a system...best you can do is note: "This system has high demand for slaves" or such info.
Delivery ingame of this kind of info has been discussed in other threads involving comms and news.
Me likes the concept of rumours. But an autologger? I like the taking notes part. The more notes, the better the game.

3b) Could be fun to have areas that have a higher demand for certain stuff.
But beware, fuel is expensive. You could end up killing the small independent traders.
For goods such as gems/platinum and alienitems, you often have to travel quite a distance to get the 'right price' already.

[Selezen]

AH, that's what causes the mass locking thing - a ship coming into scanner range when the J drive is engaged.

I would agree with a lot of what Nic says. The one thing that annoy me about later versions of Elite is encountering ships travelling the same direction as you. In early versions, all ships between you and the planet were travelling towards the witchpoint, so flew off the scanner fairly quickly. Modern versions, including Oolite, include ships flying the same way as you, and if you encounter the same ship as you are flying, it can take ages for it to fall behind. The hyperspace fuel injector makes this easier, but if you're a new player it's not an option, resulting in a long and boring flight.

[Murgh]

1. yes A_H he was suggesting an override that's only mass-locked by criminals.
first off, such a mode would entail that no matter how prolific, a player can never reach E l i t e. I think, at least.
is it so dreadful to learn to space jump outside the trade highway until you can afford an afterburner? I'm not for this one.
2. yes, the laser temp could use a little balancing, and I'd be for a laser cooler equipment item.
3. it's a good idea. a scrapbook of prices (even though they might not be current when you revisit the system) would be a cool thing, if it could be seamlessly and elegantly fitted to the UI.

and yes, a little more diversity won't harm the game. please elaborate.

[Nic]

@Arexack_Heretic:
Thanks for your input:
1) Pressing J speeds you up while in a sector yes. But as soon as you are near any other ship, or near the planet you slow right down. Even if you move way off the corridor between the jump point and the planet it can take a long time to get to the station. Especially seeing as there is nothing to do (as there is no threat). I just believe some users will see it as a waste of time as you ever so slowly move towards a station with nothing else to do.

2) Thanks

3) I will look up the other threads. Thanks again.

4) The prices change only very slightly. As a starting user it doesn't take long to realise that computers from Ensoreus->Isinor then furs back is a good trade route, going elsewhere won't necessarily give more income so why travel further? (apart from curiosity, which is enough, but it would be nice to have more a little incentive to get far away from Lave).

Thanks for your input, I hope others will reply. Is there something you feel that is more important that should be implemented ?

EDIT: Oh, your post changed after I hit submit. I'll try and answer your additions in the post to Murgh.

-Nic

[Arexack_Heretic]

So you want to disable masslocking on friendlies only... sorry i misunderstood.

And I agree about the parallel travellers: they are annoying. especially when they are vipers. They were also present in th C64 version.
(nice to come up from behind a Boa....and then blast it to bits! Whaahahaa! that'll teach him to clog up the spacelanes.)

[Murgh]

see you'd lose that incentive if mass-lock disappeared.

many have been driven to a life of crime just because they couldn't bear to be part of the traffic jam.

[Arexack_Heretic]

spacerage.

[Nic]

@Murgh: Thanks for replying.
1) Well, I would have it so it would be something you forcibly have to override, such as pressing Ctrl+J instead of just J. When you first start out fighting ships it's suicide (at least till you get the ECM), but once you are all set it's good to be mass locked and get into duels, raise your ranks and help ships in need.

Remember also this would be for a separate "Easy" mode setting, I wouldn't touch the normal mode used by players that like the current pace of Oolite. I'm trying to think of ways to open the game up to others.

2) Well it seems people are in a rough agreement on this so far. So i'm glad i'm not too far off piste.

3) I think so. Writing notes is kinda good fun as Arexack_Heretic mentioned, but with so much to write I don't think it entices the casual gamer.

I'll come up with another post entirely with diversity ideas. It needs more thought, before I start spouting off But feel free to post your own so we can discuss them, i'd like to get something together for people to try relatively quickly so we can see how it effects gameplay.

-Nic

[Murgh]

sure thing
1. but this ctrl-J wouldn't work in the vicinity of criminals, or are you thinking of a novice emergency button?

being old and having survived the 80s while writing down Elite commodity prices into my palms with sharp lead pencils, I'm all for the coming generations to have easier times.
but how about calling it a training mode or something.

is is after all Dark Wheel legacy that it should be difficult to get started. that thing about it being so difficult to dock that every novice dreams of getting the docking computer but when it's bought it isn't needed anymore.. that's a good thing right?

3. do you have a vision on how to pull off this tech price scrap book. please share. the 80s are gone.

looking forward to another post with your thoughts on system diversity.

[Nic]

@Murgh: You are correct Ctrl-J wouldn't work in the vincinity of criminals. That way it isn't a cheat to get out of difficult spots but instead just a mechanism to speed up the game.

You are quite correct, I really like the Dark Wheel idea of things being difficult to begin with a pilots dreaming of getting that "iron ass" ship However, I don't think it should be dull/slow. In some respects I think the game should be harder (i.e. Higher price for Beam Laser & ECM, the Cobra is already a very powerful ship (either make it less so (which is against Dark Wheel) or make the other ships far stronger, more skirmishs in anarchic systems, etc)

The tech scrap book could be done in a number of ways. Either as another GUI screen with a list of all places visited (and then the ability to bring up the price list). Or (my personal preference) is that when you select a destination system using the galaxy/star map you can already check to see information about it (population, etc) from there i'd have a button to select "last recorded pricelist" or similar.

How does that all sound?

-Nic

[jonnycuba]

Would it be possible to script a demo that runs through Giles's

http://oolite.aegidian.org/tutorial/

using

When you first enter a new system, orient yourself toward the planet like this...



and take note of your radar, showing this...



if you now swing your ship up (or down) until the radar shows thus...



...you will be at 90 degrees to the corridor, so speeding in this direction is the most direct way to get out of it. Just hit 'Jump' for a few seconds then re-orient toward the planet.

But ultimately It was never an easy/fast game & that is part of Elites fundamental classicism all IMHO of course

[Nic]

@jonnycuba: Hi jonny, although it would be possible, I think it's a lot of work. Plus, I've never liked that approach, and hence my suggestion for a ctrl+J override. My reasons are:
1) It feels like a cheat/loophole to me to avoid an irritance.
2) It sometimes doesn't work, and you still get mass locked and it takes a long time to get away from the "mass locker"
3) It doesn't get round the mass locking by planet once you get close to the station.

@all:
Out of interest:
In the version of Oolite at present, I have it so that when I hit the 'l' key I get a message that says: "WARNING: Safety off" which allows me to 'j' hyperspace even if mass locked. (hitting the 'l' key again turns safety back on). Do people prefer this method, or a ctrl-j method. Maybe flying around with the safety off could be a crime in some systems as a sort of trade off for using it?

[Murgh]

a crime because the warping side-effects to the local space fabric? or something?

I still say if you go with n00b mode, you never get to be Elite!
IMHO

that would be great if a system's price chart (stamped with the space date of recent visit) could be recalled from the star charts. certainly should be within the technology we're simulating here..

it's a tough call, the difficulty bit. I certaily agree that anarchy ought to get considerably more hairy, and see your point about some lowish prices for powerful weapons. it could be that Oolite would benefit by taking the cue from Elite A (never played it then, just emulated it recently) and ArcElite?.. by starting the fresh commander off in an Adder. it makes sense to me. Alex Ryder did have a unique destiny starting off in one of the best ships..

Oolite-strict is there, fixed, so it's worth talking about these things. I wonder how Giles feels about it.

[Arexack_Heretic]

I messed with elite A only shortly...starting out in an adder, I found I had too little cargo to make profit except on computers (etc) to dangerous systems.
And that was very difficult in an adder with only a laser.

I like the warning and safety regulation trespass ideas.