Oolite Bulletins

Hi everyone. I'm new to both Oolite and Elite as a whole. I've given both Oolite and Elite Plus (for the DOS) a try and enjoy both very much in their own ways.

Recently I find that Oolite 1.76 (my first version) for Windows crashes whenever I engage in heavy dogfighting or get massacred by several hostile ships all at once. I have all 3 graphics enhancements turned off (wireframes on, reduced details on, and detailed planets off), play on Strict mode, and do not have any graphic card installed. My desktop is from 2005 (HP Pavilion a1223w). My system specs:

Windows 7 32-bit
Intel 4 3.06 GHz
3.12 usable physical RAM

I am actually thinking about eventually getting a new desktop anyway as the PC is getting long in the tooth. If I want to play Oolite with all the graphics enhancements turned on and also possibly be able to add graphical OXPs, are the above specs OK (I would just need a graphic card, one new enough to be able to add shader effects also)? Or should I invest in something more advanced?

I know there is another topic for laptop specs in this Oolite-PC forum but I don't want to hijack it with my desktop question. Thanks!

Hi BF Bullpup and welcome!

I'm no expert, but your gfx needs to be able to support OpenGL gfx. I don't know if a driver update for the integrated gfx would help, but it may be worth trying. As for adding a gfx card, I think your mobo only has PCI slots, not PCI-E. Finding an old PCI gfx card that supports OpenGL may be difficult. Hopefully, an expert will wander through soon.

According to Google - your PC has the following chipset: Intel 915GV

Latest drivers from here: http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/cs-011594.htm

But that's a fairly terrible gfx card - and as EV has already alluded to, gfx instability/drivers is the likely cause.

I have a similar spec (but even older PC) but with a dedicated card and performance is much better and <touches wood> no crashes.

And of course - welcome to the friendliest board this side of Riedquat(tm) - sorry your first post was to raise a problem!

Since we don’t have the resources for broad testing, user testing has been ad hoc, and the specific meaning of “full shaders” depends on what OXPs you’re using we can’t give a precise answer, but a rule of thumb is that a GPU that supports DirectX 9.0c/Shader Model 3.0 should suffice. (Oolite doesn’t use DirectX, but its versioning is more useful for this distinction.) This broadly corresponds to any ATi/AMD or Nvidia card released in late 2005 or later – Radeon R500/X1xxx series, GeForce 6/6xxx series, and their mobile counterparts.

Earlier shader-capable GPUs – ATi R300, GeForce FX, Intel 900/950 – have severe limitations which Oolite tries to work around by restricting settings. It should be able to avoid crashes (with up-to-date drivers) on your system, and restrict shaders to simple mode. Can you provide any more details about the crashes?

[Missing in the GPU listings above: ATi R400 (X700/X800/X850) series. We don’t have special settings for these at the moment, but trawling the board archives suggests they should be limited to simple shaders. Capt. Murphy has had a variety of interesting problems with an X700.]

Thank you all for the warm welcomes and for the help so far.

I forgot to add in my original post that when I turn planet details on, the gameplay became choppier the closer and more prominent in my display a planet or space station is. It got to the point that docking was too difficult because the station's rotation was so choppy that I couldn't properly align my ship upon entry. A pity as the planets look so beautiful.

El Viejo: A few years ago I tried to install an ATI Radeon X1550 card, which was the fastest possible PCI card. I think my specific card was a lemon and I was able to get a refund from the eBay for it. Given the choice between upgrading my computer to one with PCI-E or trying another one of the same PCI card again, I would opt to go for the former. Oolite is constantly evolving, which I am glad to see, and it would probably make more sense to go with a card that is actively supported by its manufacturer. The driver for X1550 is not supported after Vista (I'm using Win7), so I wouldn't be getting my money's worth messing around with abandoned graphics cards/drivers.

DaddyHoggy, thanks for mentioning my integrated graphics processor. Yep, I have learned firsthand how much worse an integrated graphic processor is compared to one that is installed. :-\ According to HP Support my driver has not been updated since 2006... that can't be good! Also, the chipset family isn't compatible with Windows 7. Strike 2.

Ahruman, sorry I'm not more helpful but as mentioned in the top of this post, gameplay is very choppy with full graphics options enabled. If the planet and satellites are far away from my ship and no ship is nearby and fighting me, then gameplay is nice and smooth. If I get shot at heavily (2 or more ships fighting me) then that is when the gameplay teeters towards freezing/crashing even with graphic settings to an absolute minimum. Basically I can do everything else in the game on Strict mode and no OXP's EXCEPT for fighting with multiple ships. Fighting with 1 is pushing it and possible, but 2+ is a no go.

Thanks for the graphic card suggestions. My new desktop wish list will be Windows 7 64-bit (I'll keep the 32-bit computer as my "retro" machine... it has Windows 98SE installed in a separate partition!), use PCI Express, and be compatible with graphic cards using Windows 7 and capable of OpenGL, DirectX 9.0, and Shader Model 3.0.

BF Bullpup wrote:

My new desktop wish list will be Windows 7 64-bit... use PCI Express, and be compatible with graphic cards using Windows 7 and capable of OpenGL, DirectX 9.0, and Shader Model 3.0.

Make it PCI-E 2. I'd strongly recommend an nVidia gfx card, not an ATI/AMD... nVidia seem to handle OpenGL better.

BF Bullpup wrote:

I forgot to add in my original post that when I turn planet details on, the gameplay became choppier the closer and more prominent in my display a planet or space station is. It got to the point that docking was too difficult because the station's rotation was so choppy that I couldn't properly align my ship upon entry. A pity as the planets look so beautiful.

The most effective workaround for this type of problem (fill rate limitations) is to run at a lower resolution (in full screen) or a smaller window. Of course, applying more oomph to the problem is preferable when practical. :-)

Ahruman wrote:

BF Bullpup wrote:

I forgot to add in my original post that when I turn planet details on, the gameplay became choppier the closer and more prominent in my display a planet or space station is. It got to the point that docking was too difficult because the station's rotation was so choppy that I couldn't properly align my ship upon entry. A pity as the planets look so beautiful.

The most effective workaround for this type of problem (fill rate limitations) is to run at a lower resolution (in full screen) or a smaller window. Of course, applying more oomph to the problem is preferable when practical.

Thanks for reminding me - I set the game to 640x480 (the lowest resolution) and I usually play the game on a large window (not full-screen, but takes up most of it) so I can easily access an Excel spreadsheet I use to help me figure out trading prices between different planets. I make sure all other applications aren't running.

I tried your advice to play it on full-screen (with nothing else running) and it helped a little bit. It is better than making the window very small. Docking is a little bit choppy but not too much of a problem. The game gets a bit choppy when I approach that navigational beacon with the planet fully rendered... I'd hate to think what would happen if I get attacked by a hostile at that point! Using the mouse in the galactic map is a bit of a pain because the cursor seems jerky.

I picked a fight with a gang of 5 Boas in an Anarchy system to see what would happen and I got a similar result as when I turn off all 3 details: the application freezes up a bit as everything goes white (when I got shot at, not when I was firing my laser on the Boa), and then after a minute it eventually returned to the regular space view and told me my rating and that I had been killed. My computer doesn't seem to be able to handle multiple ships firing at me at once no matter what I turn off.

Thanks for the graphic card recommendation, El Viejo. I'll start saving up for that new desktop and I hope to post here again in a few months' time gushing about Oolite like all the other board regulars.

One tip I would give, as an owner of a slow computer, is to find a program called Game Booster. This program maximises system performance by closing unnecessary system processes. It can restore them again when you have finished playing. I've found my frame rate improves from stuttering, to playable.

JazHaz wrote:

One tip I would give, as an owner of a slow computer, is to find a program called Game Booster. This program maximises system performance by closing unnecessary system processes. It can restore them again when you have finished playing. I've found my frame rate improves from stuttering, to playable.

Good idea! What a clever program. I downloaded it a few minutes ago. Believe it or not, when I turn off all processes using it, the game is actually slower and more choppy. That is strange, as I would have expected the opposite. Is there a certain process that should remain on or an option that should remain unchecked?

Try not having Excel loaded?

JazHaz wrote:

Try not having Excel loaded?

All processes and applications were off. I tried the few optimizing tools the program has but the game was slow when I approach planets. The game was very smooth when I turn off graphic details, though.

Now I'm not sure if the game sometimes hangs/crashes in the middle of a dogfight, or ONLY if I get killed. I remember it crashing once when I was fighting and pursuing an enemy ship in one-on-one combat (no other ships involved)...

Thank you to everyone who responded in this thread. I researched NVIDIA and ATI drivers and I realized that the old ATI PCI card I bought (256 MB) wasn't even compatible with Windows 7. NVIDIA has a 1 GB PCI card (GeForce 9500 GT) that is still supporting Windows 7. I just installed it a few minutes ago and everything works perfectly. I took Oolite out on a test spin with maximum resolution and all graphics goodies turned on and the game plays incredibly smoothly. I'm glad I did my research rather than buy a new PC outright. Thanks again to the friendliest board this side of Reidquat!

I'm hoping you don't mean PCI, but PCI-e, because otherwise it doesn't matter how good the GPU is, PCI is choked for bandwidth (133MB/s)

No, it is indeed PCI. My computer doesn't have any PCI-E slots (I wish). I agree with you that speed will never be ideal, but Oolite is performing fantastically and I'm more than satisfied with my upgrade.

http://www.jaton.com/VGA/graphics_card_ ... hp?pid=182

EDIT: found the correct URL for the video card.