Oolite Bulletins

Posted: **Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:49 pm**

http://www.box.com/s/kmfdpenrm9fl76i604s8

Back in June I discovered Sabre's old OXPs which I liked very much. This is one of them: the Biosphere station. At the time I converted the shipdata file from XML to openstep, because XML is evil and it is the duty of all right-minded people to help eradicate it. This morning I have converted the spawn script to JS, for no particular reason, it worked perfectly well before. This station is screaming out for a re-texture, and also some slight correction of the model (as you can see in the image, the tail continues up inside the station, behind the docking bay), so I'm posting this message in the hope that Someone Else will take up the challenge of giving this station the spruce-up it deserves. Save the Biosphere, people!

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:45 pm**

The main problem with your biosphere is that for some reason it's missing a docking bay. Not sure why, it should be there. Compare this screen shot:

Comparing the version in my downloads folder to the one in my AddOns folder I notice that I had converted the script to JS a long time ago. However, the problem with re-releasing the OXP (or even using it) is the total lack of any license.

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:58 pm**

Bit of a tweak to that and you're half-way to the ship from Silent Running... (now there's a classic Sci-Fi film!)

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:01 am**

DaddyHoggy wrote:
Bit of a tweak to that and you're half-way to the ship from Silent Running... (now there's a classic Sci-Fi film!)

Indeed, the reference to Silent Running was what I immediately liked about the station. It's even better, because the sphere slowly rotates.

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:15 am**

I've been of the lwg3d site - but its very flaky and I can't find the model anywhere...

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:06 am**

Possible changes for this OXP's shipdata.plist:

Code: Select all

		"equipment_price_factor" = 1.5;
		"equivalent_tech_level" = 1;
		"max_defense_ships" = 5;
		"max_scavengers" = 2;
		has_shipyard = 0;

The station is small, probably shouldn't have a shipyard, or lots of defensive ships, or much equipment for sale. Considering how close it is to the main station, lots of defensive ships aren't really needed.

Roles possibly needs to be changed to:

Code: Select all

roles = "biosphere carrier(0) station(0) station2";

...so it's counted as a station and carrier but NOT possibly spawned when a random station or carrier is called for. station2 = secondary station near main station.

Likewise, it could use its own commodities menu instead of just getting the standard main station commodities.plist. My suggestion for that is to have fewer items for sale and lower quantities (no room to store it all and little demand):

Code: Select all

{
	biosphere = (
		("Food", 0, 0, 19, -2, -2, 3, 1, 3, 0),
		("Textiles", 0, 0, 20, -1, -1, 250, 3, 3, 0),
		("Radioactives", 0, 0, 65, -3, -1, 0, 7, 3, 0),
		("Slaves", 0, 0, 40, -5, 0, 250, 31, 7, 0),
		("Liquor/Wines", 0, 0, 83, -5, -3, 0, 15, 5, 0),
		("Luxuries", 0, 0, 196, 8, 4, 5, 3, 3, 0),
		("Narcotics", 0, 0, 235, 29, -1, 250, 120, 3, 0),
		("Computers", 0, 0, 154, 14, 4, 5, 3, 5, 0),
		("Machinery", 0, 0, 117, 6, 4, 8, 7, 15, 0),
		("Alloys", 0, 0, 78, 1, 1, 5, 31, 5, 0),
		("Firearms", 0, 0, 124, 13, 0, 250, 7, 7, 0),
		("Furs", 0, 0, 176, -9, -2, 250, 63, 7, 0),
		("Minerals", 0, 0, 32, -1, -2, 250, 3, 7, 0),
		("Gold", 0, 0, 97, -1, -1, 0, 7, 5, 1),
		("Platinum", 0, 0, 171, -2, -1, 0, 31, 7, 1),
		("Gem-Stones", 0, 0, 45, -1, -1, 250, 15, 7, 2),
		("Alien Items", 0, 0, 125, 1, 0, 0, 20, 0, 0)
	);
}

250 for starting amount for sale actually means -5 (or -6?)...so just to SEE any, the randomizer has to add >5 more.

The only defining condition for when this station spawns is at systems with Tech Level greater than 9. (in short 10-16 TL) It might be a little inappropriate at least at an anarchy or communist system. And is this supposed to be agricultural in nature or industrial? It's ok to be at both types, but I'm a little at a loss how to define it.

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:04 am**

Switeck wrote:

Likewise, it could use its own commodities menu instead of just getting the standard main station commodities.plist. My suggestion for that is to have fewer items for sale and lower quantities (no room to store it all and little demand):

Code: Select all

{
[/quote]

I think it would be good to tune it based on the system it is in.

Seeing as it's a station that grows stuff, I would say that it more likely to pop up on non agricultural worlds. It makes more sense because a heavily industrial world would have messed up lots of it's natural resources, therefore you could probably have a few stations which help support the planet for it's food production. Therefore on some worlds, the food price available in the biosphere station would be cheaper as it's produced on site. No transport costs.

Also on lower level worlds and and more turbulent ones, you would have stations that are used to grow only narcotics, with them at a significantly lower price than the station. 
Probably be worth setting them away from the planet somewhere. Could make for some interesting ideas with police ships doing raids on the drug suppliers.

!m!

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:40 am**

"I think it would be good to tune it based on the system it is in."

That would require a different Biosphere station "ship" for each type of system commodities.plist you wish to model. The idea has merit, but I'm not sure the Biosphere station should be that plentiful -- putting one at every TL10-15 system will make them seem "old hat" fast. Better to have more variety with more varying secondary station types, such as Sothis, Superhub, Anarchies/Commies/Dictators/Feudal flavors, Hoopy Casino, Buoy Repair, Multi-Government Free Trade Zone, Your Ad Here Constore, Black Monks Monastery, Random Hits Space Bar, Globe Station, Nuit Station, Tori Station, and even standard Rock Hermits/Pirate Coves. With that much variety, a consolidated js script is almost needed just to prevent too many station types in 1 system!

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:18 pm**

Switeck wrote:
The only defining condition for when this station spawns is at systems with Tech Level greater than 9. (in short 10-16 TL) It might be a little inappropriate at least at an anarchy or communist system.

At least you don't need to worry about the former. There are no anarchy systems with TL > 9 in the game (I know; I checked them all before I decided upon the TL-ranges for the various stations created by Anarchies.oxp).

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:40 pm**

I agree that a biosphere should produce cheaper food (albeit less than 10t), and sometimes narcotics.

I've installed it, but it appearing in every TL10 or greater seems at the same time too restrictive for a technology we're experimenting with nowadays, and too undiscerning about their purpose.
I also disagree on limiting them by political system, as everybody needs to eat - regardless of politics. On the other hand, agricultural systems should have no use for them...

I think better placing options could be:
-orbiting a moon on some wealthy feudal systems (some wealthy baron might want to make his barren moon-type fief self-sufficient);
-around most average to rich mainly industrial systems;
-several of them (defined by the population and wealth) orbiting high population, high tech non-agriculturals;
-on scripted defended asteroid fields, within range of a ragtag collection of disabled large ships and 2 or 3 utilitarian stations (e.g.: rock hermit, a factory, a hacker outpost, a modified Hoopy casino), forming either a deep space colony (possibly harassed by slave hunters) or a pirate haven.

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:49 pm**

Cmdr. Maegil wrote:
I think better placing options could be:
-orbiting a moon on some wealthy feudal systems (some wealthy baron might want to make his barren moon-type fief self-sufficient);

That brings to mind a question I've wanted to ask for a while. Can stations be put around moons, especially since moons aren't in the standard game?

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:25 pm**

JazHaz wrote:
That brings to mind a question I've wanted to ask for a while. Can stations be put around moons, especially since moons aren't in the standard game?

It should be easy to test if there is a moon in the system and if so, add a station next to it. Now its already happening that shuttles launch from moons. Every planet in fact starts with a few shuttles on them and launches them with some long interval. When you clearly look, you might sometimes spot a shuttle coming from a moon and not the main planet surface. Even the very distant planets launch shuttles that go to the nearest station. (what will be the main station in most cases, a very daring long distant flight in a wacky shuttle.)

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:42 pm**

I guess inter-system shuttle traffic never was Oolite's strong suit. But it does give the player more to shoot at.

It definitely works that industrial systems need this far worse than agricultural systems do.

Cheaper food on the Biosphere also makes sense...but food's already pretty cheap at its lowest (2 credits/TC at a poor agricultural system), so the max and average price could be lowered instead of (also?) lowering the minimum price.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:28 am**

I don't see these stations as player profit-oriented, but rather as another immersion element; their real function isn't to give the players another place to trade (though they may do so), but to help simulate a functional universe where governments do worry about little things such as securing food sources.
They might produce food cheaper than from imports, but food is still very low priced; this, added to the low quantity and high running costs, would reduce the profit margin to nearly negligible levels (at least for the players, used to earning hundreds or even thousands of credits per jump).
OTOH, it's one of the two stations I think it'd make sense to be spawned in clusters (the other being the rock hermit).

Some more ideas on them:
- their technology was necessarily a part of the colony ships, so they might be found even in TL1 systems;
- agricultural and mainly agricultural worlds can export food, so they have no need for an orbital station's maintenance costs - it wouldn't be able to compete with the dirtside production prices;
-orbital stations are expensive items so poor systems wouldn't be able to afford to buy one, even if in the long run it could mean food security and save them money from imports;
-conversely, average to rich non-agricultural systems would try to complement its food supply, so one or more are to be expected;
-rich industrials would have the most need, but also the money to acquire them.

In short, a rule of thumb to see how many an industrial system should have could be for instance, 1 station per billion people for rich systems, or per 2bi on average ones, and divide by four if the system is mainly industrial (and none at all on poor systems).
As for anarchies, while I believe a biosphere station would be a highly tempting target for takeover, it's also one that most nobody would intentionally damage - but accidents (and scorched earth tactics) are known to happen, so some stations could be missing.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:56 am**

Cmdr. Maegil wrote:
I don't see these stations as player profit-oriented, but rather as another immersion element; their real function isn't to give the players another place to trade (though they may do so), but to help simulate a functional universe where governments do worry about little things such as securing food sources.
They might produce food cheaper than from imports, but food is still very low priced; this, added to the low quantity and high running costs, would reduce the profit margin to nearly negligible levels (at least for the players, used to earning hundreds or even thousands of credits per jump).
OTOH, it's one of the two stations I think it'd make sense to be spawned in clusters (the other being the rock hermit).

Some more ideas on them:
- their technology was necessarily a part of the colony ships, so they might be found even in TL1 systems;
- agricultural and mainly agricultural worlds can export food, so they have no need for an orbital station's maintenance costs - it wouldn't be able to compete with the dirtside production prices;
-orbital stations are expensive items so poor systems wouldn't be able to afford to buy one, even if in the long run it could mean food security and save them money from imports;
-conversely, average to rich non-agricultural systems would try to complement its food supply, so one or more are to be expected;
-rich industrials would have the most need, but also the money to acquire them.

In short, a rule of thumb to see how many an industrial system should have could be for instance, 1 station per billion people for rich systems, or per 2bi on average ones, and divide by four if the system is mainly industrial (and none at all on poor systems).
As for anarchies, while I believe a biosphere station would be a highly tempting target for takeover, it's also one that most nobody would intentionally damage - but accidents (and scorched earth tactics) are known to happen, so some stations could be missing.

I like your thinking!

Oolite Bulletins

Biosphere OXP

Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

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Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP

Re: Biosphere OXP