Oolite Bulletins

Excuse me, but I am seeing rather not contributing posts from some members which does not contribute to oolite at all.

The BB must be a place to contribute to the project and discuss problems, and must be friendly as mentioned in the Wiki Page.

For about two months ago I would refresh the browser to get a new valuable comment posted by a user and I would learn from that post. But Unfortunately now a days I see mostly non sense. And I think it is time to warn those users that this board is not a kids playground.

Cheers

I suspect you will see the number of rapidly locked threads potentially increasing Okti. You're not alone in your concerns.

I also must agree with both of you on this matter. I used to really enjoy coming here and would learn allot but as of late it is just frustrating to wade through a load of postings which I can see no reason for except to get their count up. I read here that it would not be tolerated.

I am also dismayed when some forum members start new threads instead of keeping to threads which were already on the subject. And no perceivable effort was made to do research before the new thread was started. A cull would be most welcome to cut out a lot of static so that a nice clear signal can be received once more.

Be careful.

Okti wrote:

Excuse me, but I am seeing rather not contributing posts from some members which does not contribute to oolite at all.

Define contributing to Oolite. Not everything has to be absolutely Oolite orientated, and if so then you may as well abolish the Outworld area of the forum altogether.

Okti wrote:

The BB must be a place to contribute to the project and discuss problems, and must be friendly as mentioned in the Wiki Page.

Agreed, agreed, and agreed. However, I also come here for the community, and enjoy reading some of the banter and thoughts of other members.

Okti wrote:

For about two months ago I would refresh the browser to get a new valuable comment posted by a user and I would learn from that post. But Unfortunately now a days I see mostly non sense. And I think it is time to warn those users that this board is not a kids playground.

That you mostly see nonsense strikes me as harsh and incorrect. There is plenty of non-nonsense stuff around - the nonsense is in by far a minority of things posted here. And as for that last sentence, its tone goes completely against the welcoming and friendly nature that this board stands for.

I also have some concerns, sure. The "Count to 1000" thread was pointless, and deserved to be shut down immediately. However, the "That's irrelevant" one I thought was interesting, and might have had some promise, if the subject matter could have stayed interesting, rather than descending into the inane and meaningless. But the fact that the "no subject" thread has lasted so long (although it has somewhat turned into the Dragonfire and Ryanhoots show, which rather lessens its appeal), as has the sci-fi trivia one, are proof that some levity and games can be good to have around.

As I far as I see it, the subject has been raised, seen and dealt with in the "reporting spam" thread, and sniping threads like this do not do the atmosphere on the board any good. Therefore, is this not an unnecessary thread in itself!? In fact, I would rather deal with "nonsense" threads appearing on the boards and simply not read them thereafter, than have to deal with ones like this. Also, bear in mind that this is supposed to be a tolerant community, and it can sometimes take a while for some members to get a feel for what is and isn't acceptable.

Fatleaf wrote:

I am also dismayed when some forum members start new threads instead of keeping to threads which were already on the subject. And no perceivable effort was made to do research before the new thread was started.

Remember that newbies often have little understanding about oxps, or sometimes even Oolite itself. In a number of cases I'd be surprised if they knew what to search for, even if they tried. And it can take a while for the correct terminology to sink in. I know that it took me a good few months before I could understand exactly what it was I was reporting, and it's hardly fair to ask someone to correctly place something they don't understand. Long term members, on the other hand, should know better, and that does frustrate me a little.

Fatleaf wrote:

A cull would be most welcome to cut out a lot of static so that a nice clear signal can be received once more.

I'd be wary of this. A lot of useful information can be found in these duplicate threads, let alone numerous welcomes to the board. And the different phrases used in them might well make it more likely that someone who actually does try searching for something can find what they're looking for.

Do we really need post counters? Aren't people mature enough to let the weight of their opinions rest of the legitimacy of their well-articulated arguments and personal expertise rather than try to point to a number of posts on a message board?

If David Braben and Ian Bell showed up we'd listen, and their post counts would be very low, yes?

Oathbreaker wrote:

Do we really need post counters? Aren't people mature enough to let the weight of their opinions rest of the legitimacy of their well-articulated arguments and personal expertise rather than try to point to a number of posts on a message board?

If David Braben and Ian Bell showed up we'd listen, and their post counts would be very low, yes?

Would not argue with this at all, For me quality is always better then the quantity, the reason I started this discussion was some members still think quantity is better. And I am not mentioning outworld but expansion packs or discussions.

Fatleaf wrote:

I am also dismayed when some forum members start new threads instead of keeping to threads which were already on the subject. And no perceivable effort was made to do research before the new thread was started. A cull would be most welcome to cut out a lot of static so that a nice clear signal can be received once more.

Mauiby de Fug wrote:

Remember that newbies often have little understanding about oxps, or sometimes even Oolite itself. In a number of cases I'd be surprised if they knew what to search for, even if they tried. And it can take a while for the correct terminology to sink in. I know that it took me a good few months before I could understand exactly what it was I was reporting, and it's hardly fair to ask someone to correctly place something they don't understand. Long term members, on the other hand, should know better, and that does frustrate me a little.

Fatleaf wrote:

A cull would be most welcome to cut out a lot of static so that a nice clear signal can be received once more.

I'd be wary of this. A lot of useful information can be found in these duplicate threads, let alone numerous welcomes to the board. And the different phrases used in them might well make it more likely that someone who actually does try searching for something can find what they're looking for.

First, I'd like to say I know that I can be the master of irrelevant and worthless posts and threads, and I apologize.
Here's the main thing I need to say about "duplicate" threads:
Sometimes circumstances change. Let's say there's a thread about somebody who is having a problem with version 1.0 of an OXP, on version 1.65 of Oolite. The problem is solved, the thread goes into the BB archives.
Let's say, a lot later, that somebody got version 2 of the OXP with version 1.75.3 of Oolite. The new versions of both Oolite and the OXP bring many new changes. Would it be right to post problems in the old thread, or start a new thread?
Logic says to me that it would be good to start a new one, because a new thread makes you think there's a new problem. Of course, I may be wrong, but I think a new thread made for the purpose of the new versions would be good.
Of course, if the problem was with the same version of Oolite and the same version of the OXP, I'm sure it would be okay to post in the existing thread.

RyanHoots wrote:

First, I'd like to say I know that I can be the master of irrelevant and worthless posts and threads, and I apologize.

That's ok we are a forgiving lot when a lesson is learned.

RyanHoots wrote:

Would it be right to post problems in the old thread, or start a new thread?

I have noticed the trend is to resurrect the old thread and the author will change the title to reflect the updated nature of it. It also makes it easier to find what you are looking for as it is all in one thread instead of looking through multiple threads scattered throughout the board. Look at the Griff thread for example, it has been updated all along. If you have a problem with a Griff model that is where you go, to the one thread. That way more subjects can stay on the first page and greater coverage to more peoples work is given.

Fatleaf wrote:

If you have a problem with a Griff model that is where you go, to the one thread.

Make a note of that, number one. Number one? Oh, yeah. I don't have a number one. I work alone.

Okti wrote:

Oathbreaker wrote:

Do we really need post counters? Aren't people mature enough to let the weight of their opinions rest of the legitimacy of their well-articulated arguments and personal expertise rather than try to point to a number of posts on a message board?

If David Braben and Ian Bell showed up we'd listen, and their post counts would be very low, yes?

Would not argue with this at all, For me quality is always better then the quantity.

Most definitely agree. I judge and respect people on the quality of what they say, not their post count.

Okti wrote:

The reason I started this discussion was some members still think quantity is better. And I am not mentioning outworld but expansion packs or discussions.

I'm still somewhat dubious about that; I think it was more wanting to be sociable, but a misguided judgement of what is acceptable.

Fatleaf wrote:

RyanHoots wrote:

Would it be right to post problems in the old thread, or start a new thread?

I have noticed the trend is to resurrect the old thread and the author will change the title to reflect the updated nature of it. It also makes it easier to find what you are looking for as it is all in one thread instead of looking through multiple threads scattered throughout the board. Look at the Griff thread for example, it has been updated all along. If you have a problem with a Griff model that is where you go, to the one thread. That way more subjects can stay on the first page and greater coverage to more peoples work is given.

Think about it from an oxp maker's point of view. If people post problems within the "official" thread, ie, the one the maker made when they released it, then they'll be notified about it and it is far easier to keep track of things. If problems are posted all over the place in different threads, there's a chance that the maker/maintainer of the oxp won't see it, and the problem won't be addressed. Also, what Fatleaf said!

Mauiby de Fug wrote:

I'm still somewhat dubious about that; I think it was more wanting to be sociable, but a misguided judgement of what is acceptable.

You'd be right about the sociable part.

I would echo the concerns regarding the 'signal-to-noise' ratio of the forums, as it has been plummeting of late. Similarly, I'm certain that some of our 'members' are actually mere alter-egos of a singular person who is in turn having conversations with his/her self.

Cmd. Cheyd wrote:

I would echo the concerns regarding the 'signal-to-noise' ratio of the forums, as it has been plummeting of late. Similarly, I'm certain that some of our 'members' are actually mere alter-egos of a singular person who is in turn having conversations with his/her self.

Thinking about the same subject. Even if there may be other explanations.
But I think that "twin"-identities or even "multi"-identities is a common phenomenon on most forums.

About alter egos: IIRC from the moderating I did in a forum far, far away, the moderators should be able to see the ip each post originates from. I'm sure that a quiet word in the ear of one of the 'twins' should be enough...

In any case, I've got the impression that most of our members, friendly as we generally are, are not likely to be swayed by anything less than some intelligent argument: personally, if I see an opinion I disagree with, no amount of "yeah"s & "that's right"s is going to make me suddenly agree with it...


About the post count / number of users 'challenges' I recently noticed myself... bless!

I suppose that it's quite a natural reaction if you're used to a 'competitive' board... You discover Oolite, and want it to 'be the best', so use the same behaviour that gave you kudos in <insert name of board here>. Boards for commercial games encourage quantity at the expense of anything else, primarily to pay salaries - which generally translates to better chances to improve the game or publish a sequel.

A non-commercial, collaborative game like Oolite tends to rely mainly on the enthusiasm of people that contribute to the game directly (new & improved - & original - oxps, documentation, fiction), rather than simply on the number of people that 'bought' (hmm, bought into I suppose) the game (btw, more than 700000 Oolite downloads so far, I suppose we're not doing too bad!). Sometimes it does take a little while (and threads like this one might well help) for new members to adjust to this 'different' environment, but most seem to adapt to it quite well...