Oolite Bulletins

Hi everyone.
New here, used to love playing the original Elite many many years ago ...

I've had a look around, and I'm loving the choice of oxps (indeed I have added around 100 of them - mainly the Ships, Equipment and Missions), however my system is lagging very badly indeed, sometimes...
I'm running 1.75.2 on a Dell 6400 laptop, which has the following system - Intel Core Duo CPU P8600 @ 2.40 Ghz, 1.58 Ghz, 3.45 GB RAM on Windows XP SP3. I'm not sure of the graphics capabilities, I'm just using the laptop screen, with no additional graphics card installed. 32-bit 1280x800 60 Hertz Mobile Intel 4 Series Express Chipset.

When I hyperspace to some systems, the game lags so much that it is literally unplayable. Everytime.
First example, Zaonce. I can't go there, it lags to the point of freezing everytime I try.
But Reorte is fine. No problems.

Do I have a problem with my system? Is it the oxps? Or a bug with the game somewhere?

Is there anywhere that shows how much system performance each oxp uses?

I'd like them all to be honest, but will obviously concede some to be able to play the game

Thanks for your help

Hi

The graphics card is definitely low-spec, but before we attempt to guess any further, can you please post the file Latest.log, found by going to Start->Programs->Oolite->Oolite Logs? Before going to the log, please make sure to start Oolite while holding Shift down so that we can get a full log showing us what is exactly loading and what errors occur, if any. You can exit the game once the Cobra appears on the screen and then get the log file.

By all means show us your log. But, and I can't say this is true for your case...
A phenomena I've seen myself with the game involving graphics -

A lot of the newer oxps that add objects to the Ooniverse - ships, stations, and stuff - use shaders. If your graphics card doesn't have the muscle to handle the extra textures, ect involved with shading, then the game's framerates can fall like a rock.

One solution, if this is indeed the problem, is to go into game options and turn shaders off.

Failing that, upgrade to a newer, more powerful graphics card. Might as well max out your computer's ram while you're at it, should you decide to splurge on a new card.
Pro-tip: Oolite seems to like Geforce cards best.

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:

By all means show us your log. But, and I can't say this is true for your case...
A phenomena I've seen myself with the game involving graphics -

A lot of the newer oxps that add objects to the Ooniverse - ships, stations, and stuff - use shaders. If your graphics card doesn't have the muscle to handle the extra textures, ect involved with shading, then the game's framerates can fall like a rock.

One solution, if this is indeed the problem, is to go into game options and turn shaders off.

Failing that, upgrade to a newer, more powerful graphics card. Might as well max out your computer's ram while you're at it, should you decide to splurge on a new card.
Pro-tip: Oolite seems to like Geforce cards best.

I'm guessing you missed the bit where Bantha said he was just using the LAPTOP screen? Good luck upgrading that integrated graphics chipset...

The graphics are just overloading, I think. With 100+ OXPs this is hardly a surprise, because many of them will be adding extra ships and stuff.
I'd suggest two things.
Firstly look at the OXPs you've got and see if they have different versions (for quality, eg standard def or high def, something like that). Don't go for the 'big' one!
Secondly, find your computer's limit. Un-install all the OXPs, then add them back, one by one, in priority order, the ones you really want first. Keep adding until you start seing the computer slowing down. That's the limit. You might need to live without the others.

DaddyHoggy wrote:

I'm guessing you missed the bit where Bantha said he was just using the LAPTOP screen? Good luck upgrading that integrated graphics chipset...

Oh. You're right.
I'm biased to desktops, because there's no way I'd consider a laptop to be a gaming machine; they're not upgradable.

I suppose he'll have to try the options => shaders => off trick, and best of luck.

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:

DaddyHoggy wrote:

I'm guessing you missed the bit where Bantha said he was just using the LAPTOP screen? Good luck upgrading that integrated graphics chipset...

Oh. You're right.
I'm biased to desktops, because there's no way I'd consider a laptop to be a gaming machine; they're not upgradable.

I suppose he'll have to try the options => shaders => off trick, and best of luck.

I agree - I'm sat here - typing this on an XPS M1730 and I hate it. It's power hungry (230W PSU), hot (idle runs at 65'C - flat-out 95'C), Core 2 T9500 (2.6GHz), 2x Nvidia 9800Ms in SLI, 6GB RAM, but it's had 3 new gfx card packs, 2 new mobos, 4 new PSUs, 2 new screens (and by "new" - I mean refurbed by Dell because you can't get new parts for this any more because it's 2 years old) - the battery died after a year and a month and Dell want to charge £100 for a refurb with a 90-day warranty, so I'm tied to the mains anyway. I'm glad it's a work machine - because if this had been my own cash I'd be crying every time I looked at it.

It's a wannabe Alienware when Alienware were good (i.e. before they were bought by Dell)

Desktop = games, Laptop = Word processing and emails on the go...

Holy Crap, DH!

Your comp really runs HOT, if those temps are CPU temps...

For GPU(s) they'd not be so bad, mebbe a wee bit high.

I mean, my 4 & ½ -year old E6600 runs about 35-40 'C idle and 50-55 'C on heavy gaming, depending on room temperature and how long it has been since I last time opened the case and cleared dust off. GPU is a lowly ATI 3870 though.

And by that PSU you mean power consumption, not PSU rating (max wattage), right?
If you have one Nvidia 9800, let alone two, IIRC you'd need at least 450W PSU...

Zieman wrote:

Holy Crap, DH!

Your comp really runs HOT, if those temps are CPU temps...

For GPU(s) they'd not be so bad, mebbe a wee bit high.

I mean, my 4 & ½ -year old E6600 runs about 35-40 'C idle and 50-55 'C on heavy gaming, depending on room temperature and how long it has been since I last time opened the case and cleared dust off. GPU is a lowly ATI 3870 though.

And by that PSU you mean power consumption, not PSU rating (max wattage), right?
If you have one Nvidia 9800, let alone two, IIRC you'd need at least 450W PSU...

CPU runs at about 50'C idle about 70'C under load, running FurMark in burn in mode I can get the GPUs up to about 98'C before the fans reach warp eight and performance shuts down for safety. The PSU brick weighs 1.2Kg (the laptop weighs 5.4kg on its own) and outputs 19.5V @ 11.8A, running Furmark flat out the laptop draws 235W from the mains.

As you can see from here: http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php ... 589&card2=# the M version on the 9800 *only* draws 65W per GPU - which is why I'm glad the machine still has 1 years extended warranty left because Dell would charge £400 for a refurb GPU pack each time they blew. I may have to start cooking it with some PhysX and high fidelity in the hope of cooking it properly before the warranty expires - given how many bits Dell have replaced and how long it's been offline waiting for bits to become available I was hoping they'd give up and offer me a replacement (I'd even take a lower spec if it was more reliable!)

I would suggest going to your game options screen and making some performance adjustments. Turn on reduced detail, turn detailed planets off, and turn shaders completely off.

Be careful with OXPs that add a lot of objects to the game. I would also stay away from Griff's ships, they are just too detailed for low spec machines. Forget eye candy all together, performance is more important when you've got some angry pirates on your six.

Also give the Clear Skies OXP a try. I have not had to use it myself, but I hear it helps with lower spec machines.

I think Clear Skies is less useful now you have the option to set global variables for nebulas and stars

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:

I'm biased to desktops, because there's no way I'd consider a laptop to be a gaming machine

I don’t consider Oolite to need a “gaming machine”. :-) I do a lot of my testing on a bottom-spec MacBook Air, which gets a solid 60 FPS with Griff’s ships and full shaders. As integrated graphics go, the GeForce 320M is pretty fast¹, but it should be playable on any recent laptop that isn’t a netbook – as long as you don’t have too many distinct ships in play at once, which is probably the problem here. If you reach the point where all the models and textures being used are bigger than graphics memory, things will get slow, and deficiencies in Oolite’s rendering make this worse.

Apart from cutting down on OXPs and using reduced detail mode, you can try setting the max-texture-size hidden setting to 512 or 256.

¹ In the same way that dragonflies are pretty big, for insects.

I run Oolite on a Dell Latitude D610 with Ubuntu 10.04, and Oolite works fine with Smiv's shipset and a lot of other OXPs (of course, the framerate is about 25), I'd like a Mac Pro, though (running Ubuntu 10.04, of course).

Let's go back to the beginning - Can you post your Latest.Log? There are some OXP's that will cause a performance hit due to texture size and whatnot. Let's quit with the guesswork and find out what you're trying to load...

Hello everyone, thanks for taking the time to reply to my message.
Just in terms of upgrading the laptop, not really an option, it's my work's computer, so can't be messing around upgrading anything. Not sure I should even be playing Oolite at all to be honest. Well actually I am sure... I shouldn't! Hey ho...
I've turned Shaders Off, Reduced Detail On, Detailed Planets Off, Wireframe Graphics Off (what is this anyway...?)
And here's the log (I think):-

22:07:17.312 [log.header]: Opening log for Oolite version 1.75.2 (x86-32 test release) under Windows at 2011-07-10 22:07:17 +0100.
2 processors detected.
Build options: spoken messages, mass/fuel pricing, JavaScript console support, OXP verifier, localization tools, debug GraphViz support, JavaScript profiling.

Note that the contents of the log file can be adjusted by editing logcontrol.plist.

22:07:17.390 [display.mode.list.native]: Windows native resolution detected: 1280 x 800
22:07:17.703 [joystick.init]: Number of joysticks detected: 1
22:07:18.218 [searchPaths.dumpAll]: Unrestricted mode - resource paths:
Resources
../AddOns
../AddOns/Accipiter.oxp
../AddOns/aegidian-special.oxp
../AddOns/all-stars.oxp
../AddOns/aphidv2.oxp
../AddOns/Aquatics 2.24.oxp
../AddOns/Armoury 1.07.oxp
../AddOns/Assassins.oxp
../AddOns/AsteroidStorm 4.01.oxp
../AddOns/att1.oxp
../AddOns/auto_eject.oxp
../AddOns/bandersnatch.oxp
../AddOns/Basic-debug.oxp
../AddOns/behemoth 2.6.oxp
../AddOns/BigShips 1.02.oxp
../AddOns/BoaClipper.oxp
../AddOns/boomslang.oxp
../AddOns/BountyScannerv2.0.oxp
../AddOns/BountyStatus 1.00.oxp
../AddOns/Cargo Shepherd 1.01.oxp
../AddOns/cobra35.oxp
../AddOns/cobraClipper 1.1.1.oxp
../AddOns/CobraIV.oxp
../AddOns/Condor v1.1.oxp
../AddOns/contractor v4.1.oxp
../AddOns/Copperhead v0.75.oxp
../AddOns/custsounds.oxp
../AddOns/Deposed1.3.4.oxp
../AddOns/dragon.oxp
../AddOns/DragonfireflystV1.2.oxp
../AddOns/Dredgers 2.3.1.oxp
../AddOns/dwcobra3.oxp
../AddOns/eagle2.oxp
../AddOns/Energy Equipment 1.11.oxp
../AddOns/Escort Contracts 1.1.oxp
../AddOns/ettBeaconLauncher 1.02.oxp
../AddOns/ferdelance_3G.oxp
../AddOns/ferdelance_ng.oxp
../AddOns/Flight Log 1.03.oxp
../AddOns/Fuel Tank v2.2.oxp
../AddOns/Galactic_Navy 5.3.0.oxp
../AddOns/GalDrivePod v1.2.oxp
../AddOns/Generation Ships.oxp
../AddOns/grass_snake.oxp
../AddOns/greekshipset1.oxp
../AddOns/griffin2.oxp
../AddOns/griff_prototype_boa.oxp
../AddOns/haulerp30V1.2.oxp
../AddOns/Herald.oxp
../AddOns/Hired Guns 1.25.oxp
../AddOns/icarus.oxp
../AddOns/impcourier2.oxp
../AddOns/imptrader.oxp
../AddOns/ionics-1.3.1.oxp
../AddOns/IronHide 2.00.oxp
../AddOns/ixianfreighter.oxp
../AddOns/ixianships 1.2.oxp
../AddOns/jabberwocky.oxp
../AddOns/LinkG7 v0.1.oxp
../AddOns/Llama.oxp
../AddOns/longshot.oxp
../AddOns/longway 1.1.oxp
../AddOns/lovecats 1.2.1.oxp
../AddOns/marett_vol1.oxp
../AddOns/Merlin.oxp
../AddOns/military Fiasco 2.5.2.oxp
../AddOns/milmissile.oxp
../AddOns/Misjump Analyser 1.1.oxp
../AddOns/Missile Analyser 1.2.oxp
../AddOns/Missiles and Bombs v2.4.oxp
../AddOns/Moccasin.oxp
../AddOns/morrigan.oxp
../AddOns/murgh_Xships 1.0.1.oxp
../AddOns/Naval Grid 1.00.oxp
../AddOns/Naval Torpedo.oxp
../AddOns/neocaduceus.oxp
../AddOns/nukes0.97.oxp
../AddOns/oldships.oxp
../AddOns/Ore_processor 1.58.oxp
../AddOns/Orisisv1.3.oxp
../AddOns/outrider.oxp
../AddOns/pagroove_Aurorav1.1.oxp
../AddOns/phoenix.oxp
../AddOns/Police_Scanner_Upgrade.oxp
../AddOns/PTI.oxp
../AddOns/railgun.oxp
../AddOns/renegade_viper.oxp
../AddOns/RepairBots 2.02.oxp
../AddOns/RoC.oxp
../AddOns/Rock_Hermit_Locator1.3.3.oxp
../AddOns/s-ships1.oxp
../AddOns/SecondWave 1.32.oxp
../AddOns/ShieldEqualizer+Capacitors(v1.2).oxp
../AddOns/snark.oxp
../AddOns/spearhead_1.oxp
../AddOns/Staer9scout.oxp
../AddOns/Staer9spectre.oxp
../AddOns/staer9xeikilmk2V1.1.oxp
../AddOns/Staer9xeikilV2.oxp
../AddOns/Status_Quo_Q-bomb.oxp
../AddOns/Ste3cV1.4.oxp
../AddOns/Stealth 1.03.oxp
../AddOns/supercobra 1.4.2.oxp
../AddOns/Superhubv1.2.oxp
../AddOns/Swift.oxp
../AddOns/Taranis 1.2.oxp
../AddOns/Target Autolock Plus 1.12.oxp
../AddOns/terrapin.oxp
../AddOns/tesoura.oxp
../AddOns/thargoidcarrier.oxp
../AddOns/thargoid_wars 4.5.1.oxp
../AddOns/Thargorn_Threat 1.5.oxp
../AddOns/tiger.oxp
../AddOns/Transports 2.52.oxp
../AddOns/UrutuMKIII.oxp
../AddOns/urutu_IV.oxp
../AddOns/velocity.oxp
../AddOns/Vortex 1.20.oxp
../AddOns/wolfmk2.oxp
../AddOns/x-ships.oxp
../AddOns/xarik.oxp
../AddOns/Z-ships_v1.0.oxp
../AddOns/Z_GrOovy_Cobra_AC.oxp
../AddOns/Z_GrOovy_System_Stations.oxp
../AddOns/Z_GrOovy_Viper_Raider.oxp
22:07:18.218 [rendering.opengl.version]: OpenGL renderer version: 2.0.0 ("2.0.0 - Build 7.15.10.4980"). Vendor: "Intel". Renderer: "Intel Cantiga".
22:07:18.218 [rendering.opengl.extensions]: OpenGL extensions (62):
GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_occlusion_query, GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_ARB_fragment_shader, GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_EXT_blend_color, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp, GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate, GL_EXT_fog_coord, GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two, GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_NV_blend_square, GL_ARB_shader_objects, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays, GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle, GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_ARB_shadow, GL_ATI_separate_stencil, GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_ARB_window_pos, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, GL_EXT_framebuffer_object, GL_WIN_swap_hint, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_ARB_texture_compression, GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_ARB_fragment_program, GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_3DFX_texture_compression_FXT1, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_EXT_stencil_two_side, GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_SGIS_texture_lod
22:07:18.250 [rendering.opengl.shader.support]: Shaders are supported.
22:07:20.171 [script.load.world.listAll]: Loaded 57 world scripts:
ams_system 2.02
aquatics_equipment 1.1
aquatics_populator 2.24
armoury_machineScript.js 1.00
assassins
AsteroidStorm 4.01
auto-eject 1.0
behemoth 2.6
bigShips_populator 1.0.2
Bounty Scanner 2.0 2.00
Bounty Status Display 1.00
Caduceus Damage Control Node 2.0
clipperschedule 1.1.1
CT_Script 2.0
deep_space_dredger 2.3.1
deposed
Emergency Energy Unit 2.1
Escort_Contracts 1.1
Escort_Contracts_Rep 1.1
FlightLog 1.02
GalDrivePod_main_script 1.0
GalNavy 5.3.0
Generation Ships 1.3
hiredGuns_system 1.0
hofd 5.3.0
ionics_v_rlf 1.3.1
IronHide Armour Script 2.00
ixian_ships 1.2
linkG7_autoJumper 0.1
LinkG7_main 0.1
long_way_round
military_fiasco 2.5.2
misjump_analyser 1.1
missile_analyser 1.2
Missiles & Bombs 1.0
oolite-cloaking-device 1.75.2
oolite-constrictor-hunt 1.75.2
oolite-nova 1.75.2
oolite-thargoid-plans 1.75.2
oolite-trumbles 1.75.2
oreProcessor 1.57
PAGroove_superhubPopulator 1.1
Police_Scanner_Upgrade 1.2
railgun 1.3
Repair system 2.0
rockHermit_Locator 1.3.3
shieldequalizer+capacitors.js 1.2
stealth_missionScript 1.03
taranis_one
targetAutolock 1.11
Test
thargoid_wars 4.5.1
Thargorn_Witchspace_Battle 1.5
transportSchedule 2.52
vortex_maelstrom.js 1.12
vortex_player.js 1.12
wedding
22:07:24.968 [debugTCP.disconnect]: No connection to debug console: "Connection to debug console failed: 'No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it.

' (outStream status: 7, inStream status: 7)."
22:07:24.968 [debugTCP.disconnect]: No connection to debug console: "Connection to debug console failed: 'unknown error.' (outStream status: 0, inStream status: 0)."
22:07:24.968 [debugTCP.connect.failed]: Failed to connect to debug console at address 127.0.0.1:8563.
22:07:24.968 [Flightlog]: Kills Store set to player score
22:07:25.171 [loading.complete]: ========== Loading complete. ==========