RFC: Fancy classics

Nemoricus · Post by **Nemoricus** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:24 pm

Ah, that fix is working now. Thank you.

I was expecting that the conflict between Neolite and Random Hits was something of that nature. It makes sense.

Nemoricus · Post by **Nemoricus** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:18 pm

I think that you may have the player version of the Gecko enabled for NPCs. When I tried to lock onto it, it locked onto my own ship and every time I tried to fire my laser, my own shields were damaged. Also, shooting at the Gecko caused damage to me.

If it's a bug in Oolite itself, I apologize for the mistake.

Screet · Post by **Screet** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:57 pm

Nemoricus wrote:
I think that you may have the player version of the Gecko enabled for NPCs. When I tried to lock onto it, it locked onto my own ship and every time I tried to fire my laser, my own shields were damaged. Also, shooting at the Gecko caused damage to me.

If it's a bug in Oolite itself, I apologize for the mistake.

There were rarely reports about such things happening, especially when the target was a CM3 and the player also flying one. However, if your idea turns out to be true, that somehow a player version is being used by an NPC, it might lead to the problem finally being found.

I myself have never experienced such a thing, although I have extremely many hours of playtime.

Screet

Simon B · Post by **Simon B** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:18 am

Nemoricus wrote:
I think that you may have the player version of the Gecko enabled for NPCs.

If you can find the player version for the gecko, in neolite.oxp, I want to know about it. Gecko is supposed to be an npc-only ship.

Nemoricus · Post by **Nemoricus** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:20 am

Okay, that makes it more likely that this is an Oolite internal bug.

I'll look and let you know what I find.

Simon B · Post by **Simon B** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:37 am

I think I should be using one of these models as my avatar ... originally it was to be the katapo (from the arachnid oxp) but perhaps a neolite. Which would be considered the flagship model?

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:08 am

I have just download neooolite companion. One quick question. Is there a problem if I also have the classic versions of the oxps (aegidian specials or x-ships for example?) or I should remove those oxps first

Nemoricus · Post by **Nemoricus** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:23 am

I think that you need those OXPs as they have the base information for those ships, but I don't know for sure.

Simon B · Post by **Simon B** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:27 pm

The classic OXPs are not compatible with the neolite edition.
It won't break anything but you'll get some odd effects.

If the original oxp name starts with a letter before n, then it shouldn't matter.
I see I need to change the readme in the companion to list the oxps that get replaced.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:56 am

Simon B wrote:
I see I need to change the readme in the companion to list the oxps that get replaced.

That would be good.
Bear also in mind that inside aegidian x-ships oxp they exist 2 new types of cargo canisters.

Once again excellent work SimonB

Oh !! and in case nobody has answered you the ruttle cutter is part of the military fiasco oxp http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Military_Fiasco

Post by **Eric Walch** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:39 am

Simon B wrote:
If the original oxp name starts with a letter before n, then it shouldn't matter.

Not always true. It depends were you store your oxp's. On the mac you can store them in the same folder as oolite itself or in the library folder of the users private area. The oxp's in the oolite folder are loaded first and are used by all users while the oxp's in the private area are different for each user on that computer and load after those in the general area.

e.g on my computer I have stored my favourites in my private area while the new stuff is tested first by putting them in the general area.

Simon B · Post by **Simon B** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:58 am

aegidean x-ships will be overridden, except for the cargo containers. I asked if I should bother doing the cargo pods and got indifference and negatives.

Good point about global installs of oolite - anything installed globally will get loaded first, followed by anything local.

I should see if I can add an oxp globally ... though I just imagined, perhaps snobbishly, that anyone asking the question is talking about the local oxp collection.

Hmmm... come to think of it, Windows has multi-user capability these days. The same observation probably applies there too.

[update]no comment back on the navy and behemoth oxp revamp - at least not from the "owners". I'm guessing they are no longer monitoring the boards. Anybody know another contact - they may actually be interested?

I shall review the appropriate oxps and commence.
The idea was to combine and replace ... shall I do it stand-alone or require the oxps as dependencies?

What news on the caduceus neolite mod?

As usual, if there is an oxp anyone would like to see modded, do tell. Did I miss something?

Note: the neolite-concepts oxp contains ships in development ... I've been naughty and done a cobra-clipper style cobra-courier ... I should really do one in the courier style (extreme forward bridge et al) but maybe people prefer this one?

Shall I revamp the cobras - or do other people want to do that?
If so I can make shells available. I'll explain:

The clipper was made from three bits: a thin upper shell from the cobra, a main body which covers the nose and bottom as well as the "wing" vents, and the engine assembly which makes up the back/center.

The uuper shell has a big vee cut out of it to get the clipper shape.
If anyone wants to do a cobra mod, the upper shell will be useful - and I have it without the cutout.

Post by **Eric Walch** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:26 am

Simon B wrote:
aegidean x-ships will be overridden, ......[update]no comment back on the navy and behemoth oxp revamp - at least not from the "owners".

I don't know why you insist in overwriting the originals. If someone does not want the old ones, he just can remove that oxp.

Anyhow, this overwriting leads to massive bugs between Galactic Navy and neolite-behemoth. For one of the missions it uses a behemoth ship called nelly. That is an original behemoth but now with Nelly written on its nameplate. With your oxp installed, you get a ship build from mix of both textures and subentities. On top of this the script is broken: the ship stops doing anything so the mission can not be completed.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:47 am

Simon B wrote:
aegidean x-ships will be overridden

The name of the folder is X-ships.oxp not aegidian x-ships.oxp

No!! do not even think about it!!! since the last think that I want to see is another zzzzmyoxphaseverything.oxp

I think you should seriously revise the presentation of neoolite replacement ships in oxps. Those creations are too good to be hidden.

Right now you create a zip file with the name neolite companion or neolite concepts ect. Those zip files are only available from your site and there is no link to the wiki so unless a new player search in the forums it is impossible for him to find those packs. Moreover unless someone has significant experience with oxps it is not clear to him what oxps those packs replace. It reminds me the situation with Griff’s original trade outpost before the integration of it to your ad here oxp (forgotten and almost impossible to be found from new players).As long as those creations are still in beta form this is no serious problem. Are there still in beta?

From my point of view the valid approach is the creation of replacements oxps (aegidian x-ships neolite, python class cruiser neolite ech) that will contain the full content of the original oxps with the creation of an alternative link to the wiki page of the appropriate oxp so a new player can chose between the classic or neolite design of the ships inside this oxp. Alternative oxps that will not override but replace the original oxp. That way you should keep the puritans and those like me (that loves the neolite disighns) happy
Also a warning in the wiki page of that oxp that the player should not install both of them would be nice!!!

I will be more than happy to help you if you want. I am not a seer but I have the impression that sooner or later the noelite concept will be standard since it is the only valid and full replacement set that we have until now. So the extension of those designs to oxps would give to oolite something extremely valuable: A consistent ship design of the basic set with a lot of oxps!!!! .
Do not misunderstand me because my intention is not to dictate a policy but to help.

I would be more that happy to host in the wiki such an alternative oxp in the youradhere!!! wiki page if you are willing to create replacements for the sidewinder defenters of the constores in the future.
And I am sure that Eric would not have an objection to host an alternative behemoth noelite oxp in the wiki behemoth page as long as this oxp:
1.Do not add or remove anything from the original oxp.
2.The folder of this oxp has the same name with the original one so the player will be forced to remove the original before installing the neolite version.
3.Do not change anything else except from the design of the ship.

Simon B · Post by **Simon B** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:07 pm

Ark makes very good points.

I do need a neolite page in the wiki, and the main neolite oxps need a proper home. I'm hoping someone will make one since I'm going to be too busy to do a proper job.

In the meantime, perhaps a neolite thread could be made sticky? Helps people find it. (Probably not this one. I'm using another one for official announcements.)

The idea of putting the neolite alternative on each of the original oxps pages is an interesting one. Bear in mind that the original oxp maintainers cannot be contacted is some cases.

In some cases it has been more efficient to combine several oxps, in which case the original wiki page can indicate that it has been combined for the neolite edition?

Though it may work better to have the neolite oxp given as an alternate source of ships etc. in the individual ship listings?

However, it may be counterproductive to have put, say, aegideans x-ships, specials and the pcc in the same set as the oldships. Perhaps I should keep the oldships seperate?

Naming the oxps the same as the original may give people with lots of them headaches for management. Perhaps there is a way of switching an oxp off in a script? What do other people think about this?

I considered doing zzz-neolite.oxp but you are right - that's a pretty nasty hack. Of course, people are free to rename the files as they see fit. I also don't want to end up with very big oxps a la realistic shipyards.

The conflicts arising from behemoth/megaships are noted - which is why I put the related oxps next. navy, thargoid war, etc. I'm mostly guessing at the list of affected oxps.

There are also some interesting effects in black monks and random hits is being adjusted (IIRC). Because I play random hits, I have rather focussed on the ships featured there.

I'll discuss the navy stuff later - there are special issues with those ships which do not fit the neolite rationale well.

Of course - people who want to make more neolite mods are free to do so. And I will help people who get stuck on the more advanced stuff. So don't be scared to give it a go.