Proposal for 1.82: support for economic changes

[cim]

and then F8 can be used to change the view

You'd probably want to find a different trigger for that, since F8 at the moment is switching between "commodity summary" and "commodity detail".

[Diziet Sma]

there are so many areas in which the illegal goods rules don't make sense - or rather, do make sense but imply a very evil Cooperative

All governments are evil by definition.. Case in point; income tax. More accurately referred to as a legalised protection racket. "Give us a percentage of your income, or bad things will happen to you and your family.."

[Wildeblood]

So anyway, how do we try out these changes? Because they aren't in the nightly builds yet, are they?

[Pleb]

They're in a separate branch at present on github. If you Google how to pull from the branch into the main and merge and compile it will give you instructions. Also if you look on the Oolite page on github it will give you the branch name.

[spara]

and then F8 can be used to change the view

You'd probably want to find a different trigger for that, since F8 at the moment is switching between "commodity summary" and "commodity detail".

Sorry for being ignorant here, don't have much time to test stuff ATM. You mean F8 toggles to details page? I thought "i" key was mapped for that.

[cim]

They're in a separate branch at present on github. If you Google how to pull from the branch into the main and merge and compile it will give you instructions.

Merging the branch into your local main will work, but makes it difficult to try more than one at once, and is mildly inconvenient to reverse. Check out the branch directly instead.

Sorry for being ignorant here, don't have much time to test stuff ATM. You mean F8 toggles to details page? I thought "i" key was mapped for that.

It was, and then people wanted more out of the details page and it changed from being a different mode of the market screen to a separate page entirely. Advantage: you get a gui change event when switching between normal and detail.

All governments are evil by definition.

I said "very evil". Even by that definition there's a definite continuum between "raises taxes to fund public infrastructure and services for collective good" and "slaver empire waging economic and military warfare on its weaker neighbours". The latter is, I think, the obvious explanation for the Cooperative's current legal system.

[Wildeblood]

All governments are evil by definition.

I said "very evil". Even by that definition there's a definite continuum between "raises taxes to fund public infrastructure and services for collective good" and "slaver empire waging economic and military warfare on its weaker neighbours".

All governments treat their "citizens" as slaves. Particularly ones such as the Australian, that have adopted the doctrine of extra-territorial jurisdiction over their "citizens" - Dizzy and I are still subject to Australian law even while we travel overseas.

Anyways, question: do entering and finishing cargo contracts cause playerBoughtCargo and playerSoldCargo JS events? If not, that's a bug.

Addendum: 'nother question: why do you want to abolish the 127 unit limit on goods availability on the market screen? Are you planning to do away with the contracts system completely?

[cim]

Entering and finishing cargo contracts cause playerBoughtCargo and playerSoldCargo JS events?

No. Since the documentation for the handler says "The playerBoughtCargo handler is called when cargo is bought at the market screen." I don't think it's a bug that they don't, either.

I'll add handlers for starting and ending contracts to the list.

Addendum: 'nother question: why do you want to abolish the 127 unit limit on goods availability on the market screen? Are you planning to do away with the contracts system completely?

I don't intend to do anything to the 127 unit limit at main stations. The limits at rock hermits have been decreased, though.

OXPs can change the limit if they want (though without also changing the quantities available that will only be marginally useful)

[spara]

I've now started to update the markets of the various oxps I'm currently maintaining and I'm a bit unsure how to proceed. The easiest solution would be to write a simple market_script that has the old commodities.plist definitions. However, have the system markets changed a lot from the old defaults? If not, then I'll just use the old commodities.plist, but if they have, then I'll better tie the new prices to the main station prices.

[cim]

However, have the system markets changed a lot from the old defaults?

The average and range of prices should be about the same as before. The distribution will have changed slightly.

Of course, another OXP might change that or introduce new trade goods.

[spara]

However, have the system markets changed a lot from the old defaults?

The average and range of prices should be about the same as before. The distribution will have changed slightly.

Ok, I think I'll go with the easy solution and write a wrapper script around the old commodities.plist definitions.

Of course, another OXP might change that or introduce new trade goods.

When that happens I need to check how it affects and what needs to be done, but for now it shall be the easy solution.

[ralph_hh]

Addendum: 'nother question: why do you want to abolish the 127 unit limit on goods availability on the market screen? Are you planning to do away with the contracts system completely?

I always wonder what sense it might make to purchase a freighter ship wilst the local station supplies only a fraction of the tonnage needed to fill this ships cargo hold...

[Smivs]

I always wonder what sense it might make to purchase a freighter ship wilst the local station supplies only a fraction of the tonnage needed to fill this ships cargo hold...

You can buy more than one commodity at once, you know. Say you're heading out from a rich industrial, buy up all the computers and luxuries and anything else that looks cheap. This can often amount to well over 100TC of cargo. If your next stop is a poor agri or similar, sell for a big fat profit. If not then hold on to some or all of it until you can show a good profit. Even buy more computers etc if your next call is another RI. In other words you have the space to hold stock for a while to maximise your profit from it.
Also it means you have spare capacity for salvage - on a good run you can often get up to 50TC of free profit depending on what's been going on. This is a valid technique even with a smaller ship - my Cobby 3 Commander often launches empty and after a couple of systems has a hold full of free cargo - even food shows a good profit when it's free to acquire.

[Wildeblood]

I always wonder what sense it might make to purchase a freighter ship whilst the local station supplies only a fraction of the tonnage needed to fill this ship's cargo hold...

Get a big ship, put Trading Assistant into full auto mode and just forget about the details. Having hold space to be able to buy everything that is cheap, and not have to decide which one of two or more cheap commodities to buy, is a real luxury. Once you've got a bit of everything aboard, you've nearly always got something to sell, too. Using a big ship is qualitatively different to trading one commodity at a time with a small ship.

[ralph_hh]

Ok, indeed I was not thinking of anything highly sophisticated like multiple system trades. I was thinking about standard milk runs by trading between RI/PA systems - just to earn money as fast as possible, which is how economy in general works. The Boa Class Cruise has... eehmmm.... 175 tons capacity? Computers and Luxuries combined quite often do not add up to 100t in one market. A whole industrialized planet should be able to fabricate more than this.