Oolite Bulletins

spud42 wrote:

so, what do you think?

I think whatever's in those cookies must be some powerful stuff.. that's looking pretty darn good!

spud42 wrote:

i have also tried to add some panel detail as the "real" eagle does have raised panel detail... seems ok on the top and bottom using "normal" as the direction to tweak it but for some reason on the sides the same method was a disaster..front of panel was raised but the back end was sunk in!!!!

Whilst I'm no expert, I believe that kind of detail is best done via normal-map in the texture, rather than at a model level. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chip in on this point.

Diziet Sma wrote:

Whilst I'm no expert, I believe that kind of detail is best done via normal-map in the texture, rather than at a model level. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chip in on this point.

Correct. This reduces the poly count of the model and also keeps the textures much simpler- each 'raised' or 'recessed' section adds at least five 'faces' if you think about it. </ pretending to be an expert mode>

Smivs wrote:

Correct. This reduces the poly count of the model and also keeps the textures much simpler- each 'raised' or 'recessed' section adds at least five 'faces' if you think about it. </ pretending to be an expert mode>

The big benefit of reducing the poly count, incidentally, is that you then don't have to UV map and texture all those extra faces. The efficiency saving of reducing the size of the model file will usually be more than cancelled out by the need to include an extra texture file, if you're using the normal map to do panel indentations and similar.

(If you're using the normal map to simulate a rough surface - as the new planets in 1.80 do - that's when you really get the efficiency improvements over doing it in the model, because then you're saving thousands or millions of polygons)

Normal maps for the greebling on the Eagle's surface, most definitely the best option.

To be honest, I'd really like to see more usage of normal maps in the models that are being produced in general. I find them a kind of underused feature.

interesting.
in quite a few tutorials on wings3d and in relation to oolite models in particular i have seen this sort of detail added to the model itself not just as a texture. to be honest the rest of the ship is flat faces.

Griffs ships seem to have this sort of detail. inset then extruded/intruded,or are the faces flat and its all in the texture map?

spud42 wrote:

Griffs ships seem to have this sort of detail. inset then extruded/intruded,or are the faces flat and its all in the texture map?

Yup.. the majority of the raised/sunken detailing on Griff's ships is in the normal map, not the model. Which is why, in fact, their full collective title is "Griff NormalMapped Ships"..

Here's Griff's Cobby Mk3 with, and without, the texture:





And an example of a normal map texture and the kind of detail it can include.. in this case, a Griff Viper:

ok, now i see. way beyond my talents. maybe later.. or not.... lol

ok i have tided up the last bit of the command module now its time to try to UV map it. should be fun.......

spud42 wrote:

way beyond my talents. maybe later.. or not.... lol

Normal mapping is actually quite straightforward. Have a look on YouTube - there are lots of tutorials that make it look easy (because it is once you understand a couple of basics) and you'll soon pick it up. Gimp has a normal map plugin and I expect other graphics software does as well - Photoshop must have, mustn't it?.

Smivs wrote:

spud42 wrote:

way beyond my talents. maybe later.. or not.... lol

Normal mapping is actually quite straightforward. Have a look on YouTube - there are lots of tutorials that make it look easy (because it is once you understand a couple of basics) and you'll soon pick it up. Gimp has a normal map plugin and I expect other graphics software does as well - Photoshop must have, mustn't it?.

i cant even find the brushes in photoshop !!!! i can get the window but they are greyed out and i cant select!!! arrgghhhhh !!!!
just uv mapped the command module and now trying to texture it..... well thats the plan but as its 10:30 pm here looks like i wont get much done tonight...

For me, the easiest way to produce a normal-map is to make a greyscale height-map first and then use a dedicated tool to convert the height-map to a normal map.

Smivs wrote:

Gimp has a normal map plugin and I expect other graphics software does as well - Photoshop must have, mustn't it?.

Yes, I make my normal maps in Photoshop... a really old version of Photoshop (7.0). The plugin was made by nVidia as I recall.

Here is the link to the Photoshop plugins if you want them. Just don't ask me how to use them, my little laptop graphic card can't handle them. };]

https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-tex ... -photoshop

Paradox wrote:

Here is the link to the Photoshop plugins if you want them. Just don't ask me how to use them, my little laptop graphic card can't handle them. };]

https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-tex ... -photoshop

cheers for the link, just downloaded them now.

I have used your command module and tweaked it a fair bit. thanks for the work you did on it. i managed to do a fair bit of texturing last night but i need to tweak it and the texture for the spine. the graphic i had was not quite the same shape as the model and i had done too much work to go back and start again! its just the two ends of the spine cage that need fixing.

Not fully happy with the engine texture either its a heavily modified photo of sand on concrete. i tried to get the sand part to look like heat burnishing but the more i look at it the less i like it. i want to replace it with a more silver metallic colour.

i attempted to make a Laser canon for the front of the command module but it looked like K-9's nose... lol more research needed here as the Eagles did have lasers but i think they were mounted like a minigun on an Apache helicopter, like a turret underneath the cockpit.

spud42 wrote:

...cheers for the link, just downloaded them now.

I have used your command module and tweaked it a fair bit. thanks for the work you did on it. ...

Sure thing, glad to help! };]

spud42 wrote:

...i attempted to make a Laser canon for the front of the command module but it looked like K-9's nose... lol more research needed here as the Eagles did have lasers but i think they were mounted like a minigun on an Apache helicopter, like a turret underneath the cockpit.

Most of my ships have moved to a "laser lens" look, rather than the "gun barrel" look. Something to keep in mind however, the further away from dead center your laser is, the less accurate it becomes due to the parallax.

Paradox wrote:

Something to keep in mind however, the further away from dead center your laser is, the less accurate it becomes due to the parallax.

However, as of 1.80, the target reticle changing to red (when enabled) will correctly indicate if your shot will hit, regardless of parallax, which should help compensate.

(Which reminds me.. I need to take the Falcon-S out for a spin, and see how that influences things!)