Oolite Bulletins

Switeck wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:59 pm

This creates a weird situation with Galaxy Chart 4 which has no Corporate State systems.
It's missing a few other types as well.

Good point!

Checking out those summary charts perhaps it should be more like 'Galaxy 64'.

Switeck wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:59 pm

Commie and/or democracy revolution violently spread over a large area?

Well, running with my Corporate=GalCop idea for the moment, they needn't be revolutionaries any more than the other non-corporates in the other galaxies. However, one might reasonably expect significantly less GalCop influence within that particular region...

Maybe a more stealthy, 'cold war' of sorts could be going on?

As adumbrated at nauseating length elsewhere, of the 8 government systems in Oolite, only 5 seem to me to have a definite flavour: Anarchies, Feudals, Dictators, Commies & Corporates.

The other 3 (democracies, confederacies & multi-govs) would seem to me to contains elements of those 5 (the ships and perhaps some part of the planet might occasionally be able to afford a flavour station such as a SLAPU). Somebody else might be able to imagine a particular flavour for Democracies, but I've been having trouble envisaging it.


So what would I expect of a Corporate System?

In essence, domination by one or more Corporations.

What would I expect to see? Lots of advertising. Lots of company ships.

•I would expect the Rock Hermits to be owned lock stock and barrel by the corporations, with the miners as either salaried employees or franchisees. And so using company ships for their mining, with a company logo on the RH (as in Smiv's Accessories OXP).
•Corporate trading ships.
•Corporate vipers policing the Space Lanes.
•Corporate advertising on and in the GalCop Space Stations.
•Extra Corporate stations for manufacturing/growing specialist goodies and elite residences.

So I see Amaranth's idea as interesting, but not as an essential part of a Corporate Systems OXP.


OXP'ing it

1) Logos on ships/stations: Each system would have one or more Corporations, each with their own logo. This is a lot of work.

Presumably many Corporations would be in more than just the one Corporate system (not to mention in some democracies, Confederacies and Multi-Govs too!). But the Feudal States option of just concentrating on the 8 most powerful systems in each galaxy seems unreasonable here (Ramirez designed the coats of arms for these in G1-G6, DGill has done the rest).

But presumably we could nab some of the Corporation names/logos from YAH.



2) Stations: As for stations, KW has given us a richesse. Sothis (especially Spara's SothisTC adaptation) for trade. Nephthys for residence. Hathor (repurpose as a Corporate equivalent of SLAPU/CZGF?). And Amaranth's untextured refinery station. And then the various Superhubs, Tori, Globe, Kiota stations etc. We also have a handful of specialised corporate stations - Taranis (Lerelace), Coluber (Riredi) and Aquatics (G3).



3) Markets: And just thinking about Switeck's critique of too many stations, too many markets, too much profit. And of Corporate behaviour.

Well, the Corporates dominate the trade in their systems, no? So many of these extra station might very well not have markets open to non-Corporate concerns. Or charge a lot of dosh to dock (say, based on the tonnage of the craft). Or put extra duties on goods sold to/bought from non-Corporate concerns.

This would not necessarily apply to the Main Orbital Station run by GalCop. But it would apply with nobs on to the Gloriously Gargantuan Gearzaenian Rock-Doctor Geological Corporation stations. Not an employee? Well, there is this 27₢ registration fee (you will need to join the queue over there), the 43₢ non-employee docking fee (you will need to go over to that waiting room to take a ticket for the Docking Charges Office), and you will need to wear this special badge if you disembark - which will cost you another 18₢ (but you can reuse it on your next visit, if it is on a Tuesday!) - the queue for that is over there. (If you have any problems, this is the Customer Services number ...you are currently #613 in the queue, we will be with you shortly.)

And, as for docking at one of their Rock Hermits... Well, there is this docking charge of 16₢. And what? You want to sell us liquors? Sorry, we have an exclusive deal with El Viejo Victual Supply Vehicles Inc! And, no, we can't sell you any minerals. We have a contract with Disembodied Draught Hauliers who collect them every fourth day. I'm sorry. But would you like a drink? We can offer you some KickButtian Evil Juice at a mere 7₢ a thimble-full!



Is there anything else which might help give flavour?



References:
My earlier musings
Category:Fictional organisations (not very complete).
Cim's analysis in his Ship's Manual

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:55 am

As adumbrated at nauseating length elsewhere, of the 8 government systems in Oolite, only 5 seem to me to have a definite flavour: Anarchies, Feudals, Dictators, Commies & Corporates.

The other 3 (democracies, confederacies & multi-govs) would seem to me to contains elements of those 5 (the ships and perhaps some part of the planet might occasionally be able to afford a flavour station such as a SLAPU). Somebody else might be able to imagine a particular flavour for Democracies, but I've been having trouble envisaging it.

Organizing the many stations which are not the Anarchies, Feudals, Dictators, Commies specific stations is a good start.
Plenty to go around without getting too specialized.

The unfinished Nuit really needs a home, for me it's a high-end dictatorship's palace station and also a high-end corporate HQ station.

Sothis station has lots of big, flat surfaces to stamp on lots of ads/banners/corporate logos.

At the extreme end, Superhub could use a revamp with a mega-corporate feel to it.

So that leaves Biosphere, Globe, Habitat mk2, Transhab, Tori stations to be carefully placed.

Switeck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:33 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:55 am

As adumbrated at nauseating length elsewhere, of the 8 government systems in Oolite, only 5 seem to me to have a definite flavour: Anarchies, Feudals, Dictators, Commies & Corporates.

The other 3 (democracies, confederacies & multi-govs) would seem to me to contains elements of those 5 (the ships and perhaps some part of the planet might occasionally be able to afford a flavour station such as a SLAPU). Somebody else might be able to imagine a particular flavour for Democracies, but I've been having trouble envisaging it.

Organizing the many stations which are not the Anarchies, Feudals, Dictators, Commies specific stations is a good start.
Plenty to go around without getting too specialized.

The unfinished Nuit really needs a home, for me it's a high-end dictatorship's palace station and also a high-end corporate HQ station.

Sothis station has lots of big, flat surfaces to stamp on lots of ads/banners/corporate logos.

At the extreme end, Superhub could use a revamp with a mega-corporate feel to it.

So that leaves Biosphere, Globe, Habitat mk2, Transhab, Tori stations to be carefully placed.

Status of our Stations.


1) Why do you call Nuit unfinished?

For me, the Nuit is unfinished because one can't externally dock with the struts. But you don't need to dock liners or behemoths at palace stations/corporate HQs so you presumably mean something else.


2) But Biosphere and Transhabs desperately need a retexture if not a rebuild. Montana05 has been working on Biosphere before his engulfment by the Witchspace Lobster. We also have the unfinished stations from the list in Brilliant but broken... - Gsagostinho's, the gas giant cloud cities, etc. I also found some more models at SolCommand (2013 Lece mobile shipyard, 2011 Kono Asteroid station, 2010 Serenity Outpost, etc. - presuming he's happy to let us use them, and one of us to texture them).


3) There are also the matters of "de gustibus" (individual taste). Cody has posted several times over the years about his prediliction for the Zieman Habitat. To me it just looks bizarre. Maybe in a mission or as a one-off. Ditto for Nuit (although External Docking would save it from obscurity in my eyes as we have nothing else). Neither really seem to fit with the other stations.

But there are the differing species to consider too. Perhaps the Nuit would be suitable for Avian worlds? And the Ziemann for Rodentine?

I must say, I really like Phkb's recent retextures.


4) But is not the "reality" that the stations are constructed by somebody (Crazy Cholly's Crummy Corporation) who then flogs them off to whomsoever will stump up the dosh? Even if CCCC specialises in Royal Hunting Lodges, if a non-Feudal will hand over enough filthy lucre then they will happily sell them to Democratic Tionisla to be used as water-filled Lobstoid Mausolea at TOGY (decapodal delineations an optional extra).

I could see Biospheres as the Corporate alternative to the Imperial AstroFarm in Corporations and the occasional Democracy/Confederacy. Ditto for Hathors (Corporate alternative to SLAPUs). And Globes as Corporate Headquarters (but that is more "de gustibus" on my part).

1) I call Nuit unfinished partly because the original author called it unfinished, because the big ship external docks cannot be made to work yet due to Oolite game engine limitations, and for other reasons.
I also don't like its docking port placement -- too close to the spinning bits.

2) Well, Nuit arguably needed a retexturing as well. So does Superhub. Probably a bunch more!

3) I'm not as picky. Bizarre and tacky is a large part of Oolite's universe.

4) No, because of branding and trade dress rules. Even the shape of a station would fall under these rules. There would be little desire to possibly be mistaken for one another as well.

Switeck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:57 am

1) I call Nuit unfinished partly because the original author called it unfinished, because the big ship external docks cannot be made to work yet due to Oolite game engine limitations, and for other reasons.
I also don't like its docking port placement -- too close to the spinning bits.

Hmmm. The original author presumably envisioned something that is hard or impossible to implement with the current game engine. The current game engine is not likely to change in this respekt. But with that it will be impossible to ever finish an otherwise brilliant idea, and all the work that has been invested so far would be wasted.

Would it make sense to compromise the vision so we have something playable and keep the items on a roadmap in case the game engine allows it?

Whether Oolite ever makes externally docked ships possible is not a deal-breaker for me.
I already include Nuit in my station spawn-set for variety.

The other bugs make Nuit barely playable for me, so I seldom dock at one.

Switeck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:27 pm

Whether Oolite ever makes externally docked ships possible is not a deal-breaker for me.
I already include Nuit in my station spawn-set for variety.

The other bugs make Nuit barely playable for me, so I seldom dock at one.

Barely playable - that is indeed something to look at.
Anything I can help with? Although I'm not a graphics artist, and 3d modeling involves words I have never heard of. Scripting would require to understand Oolite-OXP communication. Maybe you can breakdown the needful into bite-sized chunks?

I'm using this page for reference:
https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Nuit_ ... tation_OXP

The docking port on Nuit is placed very close to a moving wall which causes instant death if your ship touches it.

It can be seen relatively well here:

and here:


This was a design decision rather than an outright bug, but makes docking with the station a lot harder than other stations...especially if using big freighters that are nearly as tall or wide as the docking port.

There's moments while approaching the final docking moment where textures disappear/reappear or become see-through just like as discussed at Issue with Taranis dock. This can be distracting and cause you to lose visual points-of-reference needed to dock safely.

Interesting idea.

If the dock is intended to be used by freighters it should be a bit wider. Yes actually there was the request to dock outside.

Why a moving wall so close to the dock? What is it's purpose?

hiran wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:32 am

Interesting idea.
...
Why a moving wall so close to the dock? What is it's purpose?

You could try asking Killer Wolf himself (if he remembers - its over a decade ago!). But there might be one or two tips in his release thread.




Montana05 updated Nuit and posted it to the Expansions Manager (as he did with KW's Nephthys station).



Having enjoyed a number of KW's OXPs, I would guess that he did it for effect. He experiments with creating new effects, which makes docking with his stations such great fun for me.

Have you docked at one of his Salvage Gangs (Anarchies OXP)? Did you ever manage to dock with his Isis Interstellar in G2 Cebior? And have you docked at a Hathor?

Some of his ships.oxps are also a tad different. Have a look at Wasps & Scorpius.

And then, his HUDs. His docked HUDs are my favourites. And his Steampunk HUD is fun (where is the cocktail glass holder?)

hiran wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:32 am

If the dock is intended to be used by freighters it should be a bit wider.

The docking tunnel is the same size as almost all stations have.
It's easier and safer to dock a Boa 2 sideways in "standard" docking tunnels, especially if they're spinning...fortunately Nuit's is not!

Why a moving wall so close to the dock? What is it's purpose?

The docking tunnel itself does not have a moving wall.

The moving wall is the spinning habitat part just below the docking tunnel in the picture.
I find that too close and very distracting while trying to dock. Maybe other players don't...

Switeck wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 3:17 pm

hiran wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:32 am

If the dock is intended to be used by freighters it should be a bit wider.

The docking tunnel is the same size as almost all stations have.
It's easier and safer to dock a Boa 2 sideways in "standard" docking tunnels, especially if they're spinning...fortunately Nuit's is not!

Why a moving wall so close to the dock? What is it's purpose?

The docking tunnel itself does not have a moving wall.

The moving wall is the spinning habitat part just below the docking tunnel in the picture.
I find that too close and very distracting while trying to dock. Maybe other players don't...

I found docking unpleasant, but perfectly doable. And that was without ILS. And why should all docking be pleasant?

I do notice quite a lot of detritus around other docking ports where other pilots presumably flubbed the dub.

Try it again sometime with a bulky Boa 2, where the camera angle doesn't even line up with the middle of the ship (it's closer to the top but at least centered left-and-right).

We don't need to be making Oolite any harder on something as simple as docking.

Switeck wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:45 pm

Try it again sometime with a bulky Boa 2

Oh man, the Boas... When I rescale I always need to factor in their expansive posteriors.

...Big Bottom, Big Bottom, talk about tail lights my ship's got'em...