RFC: Fancy classics

[Simon B]

Great work. I like the new model. Comes nicely along with the Superhub or Orbitopolis. 2 new stations for Oolite. See Orisis Tread.

Hmmm ... well the Orisis looks like the kind of cutout model you get on cereal packets I'm afraid. But it was one of your earlier ships right? Orbitopolis seems to have more potential.

I have at the back of my mind to create a super-station for galactic hubs - the system where you end up after a galactic jump. Made of a mixture of rotating and non-rotating parts.

The other one was to have a very large glowing area which is an ultra-tech dock. Fly into it from any angle. Could also work for wormholes by adding a script which, say, changes the location docked at to another (predetermined) one then undocks you.

I had thought it would be neat to do galactic jumps like this (if galactic hyperdrive fitted - go to next galaxy, otherwise spit out in this one) - though it would mean only being able to gal-jump from selected systems.... which messes some missions. Nothing that couldn't be fixed, but it's not a simple-oxp type change.

This big ship is making a nice behemoth. Only, I managed to destroy one with a python cc and a military laser ... need it tougher to kill.

[Simon B]

... flyby - note that the normalmaps are different front and rear - same pattern. The front one pulls the thin lines out as pipes laid over the hull. Which is better?


... closer look.


... leaving ... the blue trail is a navy asp flying CAP for the one in the background.

[DaddyHoggy]

Hmmm ... well the Orisis looks like the kind of cutout model you get on cereal packets I'm afraid. But it was one of your earlier ships right? Orbitopolis seems to have more potential.

Whoa, you might wanna ease back a bit there big fella. If this wasn't the friendliest board this side of Reidquat (tm) that might come across as slightly arrogant.

Your ships and designs are superb, but there's room for all of us here, and with help and suitable encouragement we'll all get better (and Oolite and its community will also therefore benefit).

I'm still knocking out ships for the Racing teams using the old ship models, without normal maps, or glows, or decals, but I'm learning and I'm getting better.

Others with thinner skins or more delicate egos might look in and decide that their efforts wouldn't be good enough to add to the commoonity and that'd be wrong...

Just my 0.02Cr worth

[Thargoid]

I'll see your 0.02cr and raise it my own, as I had similar thoughts.

The Orisis actually looks quite in-place with other ships in the game (I've got a test version as I've been helping pagroove get the hang of various bits of OXP making), and is certainly no worse than many other ships in the game (including all of the original models).

[ClymAngus]

I'll see your 0.02cr and raise it my own, as I had similar thoughts.

The Orisis actually looks quite in-place with other ships in the game (I've got a test version as I've been helping pagroove get the hang of various bits of OXP making), and is certainly no worse than many other ships in the game (including all of the original models).

It has the virtue of a low poly count (a topic close to my heart) I also applaud anyone doing bigger ships. The more people doing big stuff the greater chances of us clubbing together to sort out the collision detection. I'm all for a more epic oolite.

(I still think it would look cool being about five times longer, but that's not the point) The point is it's a great start, (I didn't do that well first time out) and as we well know from designing things in this game nothing is cast in stone. If the Orisis as it currently stands offends thine eye sir, then don't download the oxp. "Simmplees" as the meerkat in the smoking jacket might say.....

[Simon B]

Ahem, guys, I suspect you've got the wrong end of that particular stick ... the comment responded to was

I like the new model. Comes nicely along with the Superhub or Orbitopolis.

(I'm going to try being careful with my language here, so please excuse me if it suddenly sounds like I've swallowed a dictionary.)

I attempted to disagree with this statement as it applies to one of the ships in the referenced thread and stated a reason for the disagreement. I attempted to give cautious endorsement of the statement concerning the ships actually mentioned - since they are a work in progress.

There does not seem to be any disagreement on the facts of the observations I made. Subsequent comments just assert that there is nothing wrong with designing ships that way - indeed, there are advantages. I have not stated a contrary opinion.

It appears there is some disapproval about the way I chose to express myself.

Now - just saying "I disagree" and leaving it at that would be arrogant. Stating a reason gives pagroove a chance to defend the statement - perhaps redirect my thinking if I have misunderstood. The ensuing discussion would be benificial to both our projects.
Stating the reason shows respect for pagrooves intellegence and experience.

Others have done the same to me earlier in the thread... the early proposals for vipers were too much like crumpled paper, or snot-colored. The models had benifited from this.

So I am at a loss - please advise how I could have expressed those impressions without giving offense?

-----------
y'know, I've been looking for a pic of a cereal-box cut-out model (other than a doll or a cartoon character) and I cannot find one. It is possible that some people have not seen this sort of thing... in which case - serious communication problem.

[Simon B]

On an even touchier subject ... I am reinstating the behemoth ships, saving exceptions, and it struck me that I don't have to accept just the names provided by aegidean. These are all from various mythologies... and aegidean's oxp only had two behemoth types.

I have three right away ... two, one and zero, rings. Other variations are possible - especially if I add other models to the subentity mix. (Increasing the number of rings will mean adding another main-model though.

So - I have the option of adding extra "behemoths". So I need names for them.... I figured one should be called "Aegidean" (3 rings) and another should be "Ahruman" (3) and a Griffin (0) - maybe a pagroove because of his love of mega-sized stuff (3) ... who else? Salazen? "Thargoid" won't work ... context. Diograth perhaps? I can hunt the thread to see who has a good shipname for a nick ... so maybe the question shauld be: "who will be offended"?

Maybe I'd be better off naming them for SF authors?

Note - I can add varying patterns to each of the named ships - so if you want your namesake to have special markings - that can be done.

[ClymAngus]

Unfortunately with a text based medium it's easy to "fill in the void" left by inflection. I wasn't being offended. Just telling it straight. It's a low poly model, better than I did first time out and it's optional.

I apologize if I offended anyone. (Makes note to self to put in more smilies).

On the naming front you could always tie it into the actual system names reflecting the :

Industrial worlds
(planet)'s Pride
(planets)'s Gift


Agricultural worlds
(planet)'s bounty

That kind of thing.

[ovvldc]

... flyby - note that the normalmaps are different front and rear - same pattern. The front one pulls the thin lines out as pipes laid over the hull. Which is better?

I prefer the ones that pull the lines out. But I have a similar gripe with this texture as with your anaconda: it has a bit of a worn stone pavement look to it.. I'm not sure if that covers it perfectly, but it was the best metaphore I could come up with.

Perhaps something with a little less randomness? After all, space stations are deliberate constructions (as are starships).

Otherwise it is a nice station/ship (still not clear on what roles we'll be getting here).

Best wishes,
Oscar

[Diziet Sma]

Perhaps something with a little less randomness? After all, space stations are deliberate constructions (as are starships).

Yes, but on the other hand, (paw, tentacle, or whatever) ships and stations designed by other species would likely look, well, alien. Different species, different aesthetics.

In fact, some truly alien designs could go well in Oolite. All we really have are the Thargoids. I guess the Moray classes would also count as alien, certainly their design is somewhat different from the other ship classes.

[Thargoid]

For the texture maps, to be honest they remind me of something between cold lumpy porridge or fresh-made concrete (mainly the front version) and alligator-skin. And on a ship of that size for me they don't workso well. As said above the ships are deliberate and sectional constructs, and those textures look too organic for that role. Especially given the more metallic look on the rings, they don't go together well as being part of the same ship for me. But the overall design of the ship is an interesting variation on the normal "space-wheel" station type ship.

As to names etc, my suggestion would be to pick a "theme" for the whole lot (as I did with the Aquatics) and then each ship class then has a variant. For example you could theme them as gems, and have a diamond class, an emerald class, a ruby class and so forth. And then even have individual ships named. That's what I'm doing with the upcoming HammerHead hauler, they've all got different names in-game.

[pagroove]

Hello

I agree the first version looked a bit like a toymodel. But I like the style. I like colours. However the last liner is to my taste. A little point about your station: I like the habitat rings but I am not sure if the texture that you also have used on the coriolis works with this model. But still good work. I likd the model. Very much. Simon, no offence taken. All others thanks for the kind words. Now lets get on with a constructive discussion.

[DaddyHoggy]

It's always constructive - this is the friendliest board this side of Reidquat afterall.

For me, I'm so behind the curve with my texturing that everybody else's work usually leaves me simply open-mouthed/in awe.

However, to take one step back about ship design.

The mighty Doc Nil's original constore, Doc's original People's Transport...

Incredibly simple models - minimal texturing and yet they felt right, they felt in context and have added immensely to the Ooniverse (and inspired other's to take the idea still further - just look at YAH now!)

(and I've been in secret PMing with Griff over my own plan's for the People's Transporter)

[Simon B]

OK

- I can see there is reluctance about naming the craft for people on the boards. I'll keep one as the Aegidean since it fits the existing theme and just follow the mythical-names style of behemoth.oxp

- Nobody has stumped up with a navy-viper skin (early days though.) ... I've reskinned the asp to a navy-asp (galcop markings) and used the viper-pursuit for the navy one.

- as for the skin - I have something to think about ... it may be that I can add some bits of "clear design" to parts of the model - some symmetry or something - and, maybe a color change would be needed. (Some of the worn-pavement effect is the sandstone coloring - which I've tried to turn more blue-grey already.) I also have to watch the specular effects - I could tighten it for a more metallic look. Please note that the rings normalmap has not been done and the engines is part-done. I have not settled on a texture beyond what's there and the whole thing could go much lighter in the manner of stations.

The organic look to the fore and aft sections in contrast to the metallic rings is pretty much deliberate. That's what I had in mind.

What I have now is in neolite-megaships OXP. So feel free to play with the textures and come up with your own ideas - don't worry if they don't look all that great - I'm happy to see a mock-up that I can work to. Just so they show me your idea.

[Simon B]

For the sake of comparison - the type-1 Megaships have no rings.

On approach, you have to get pretty close to see the fine-texture...


But if you do get very close...


... I wonder if the specular is washing out the texture ... the reflected light here is set to an orangy-red, which could be adding to the worn-stone look. Perhaps if I changed that to something else and tightened up the exponent?

You can try this yourself - download the oxp... the exponent is in the alpha channel - make the texture more transparent. The specular color is in the shader part of the plist.

Here, though, I think the texturing makes more sense. I have to work out how to integrate the rings so they look more like part of one ship... albeit designed by a multispecies committee.

Also note that the star is behind the ship but there are still highlights from the normalmap? I suspect an artifact of the lighting process. At some point I'll have to update my trunk build to see if this changes.

Meantime - you'll be able to see these effects for yourself.