Oolite Bulletins

Smivs wrote:

Just a quick thought...would it be possible to Save at Rock Hermits? No real change to canon, and they already have most of the pertinant features of Main Stations.

Commander McLane wrote:

Smivs wrote:

Just a quick thought...would it be possible to Save at Rock Hermits? No real change to canon, and they already have most of the pertinant features of Main Stations.

No, they haven't. They are just like any randomly created station, which all share the same obvious difference to main stations: they are created randomly, and if you exit and re-enter the system, they may not exist anymore. Technically saving and reloading is very similar to exiting and re-entering, therefore the very Rock Hermit you saved in may not exist when you reload the game—which is exactly the contradiction which so far necessitated the limitation of saving-and-loading-facilities to main stations.

Commander McLane wrote:

Alternative idea: reliably create another pseudo-main station at the opposite side of the planet. It would work like a main station, except technically it wouldn't be the main station, and it wouldn't check for the player's bounty when docking. It is already part of the backstory (canon) that in fact there is more than one station orbiting each planet, so we could just "make visible" another one of the bunch.

Disembodied wrote:

There are two factors to be considered here: canon and gameplay. They are of course linked: canon (insofar as there is an agreed-on canon for Oolite) is what enables "gameplay-in-the-head", allowing us to imagine the larger, richer universe around us. However, the gameplay itself is what is ultimately important. When canon and gameplay collide, gameplay has to win every time. When a canon starts to dictate what you can do, no matter how much fun it might be, then it stops being a game and starts becoming a cult.

When people object to things like laser coolers, it's not (I don't think) because such devices are not canon: it's because they will have a negative effect on gameplay, in this case by making it too easy. Witchdrive injectors weren't canon, either, but they enhance gameplay by giving players (and NPCs) more options, with an attached cost – so nobody objects. All the benefits of a laser cooler, though – being able to shoot for longer – could be got simply from learning to play the game better and becoming a better shot.

The current setup, where players can only save in main system stations that are controlled and patrolled by GalCop, has been inherited from the original 32K game, and there are no doubt strong program-architecture reasons for keeping things this way. The problem, from a gameplay point of view, is that this doesn't allow for the best player experience of a criminal lifestyle, as DH has pointed out.

An optimum solution (if we assume that work gets magically done for no cost ... ) would be to alter the program to allow players to save anywhere, or at least in any station. Then all sorts of new stations and in-game lifestyles can crop up.

An acceptable (to me, anyway – not that I'd use it) kludge, though, would be to make certain systems friendly to players with criminal rankings. The obvious candidates for this would be Anarchy systems. I firmly believe that it is possible (especially if we include alien societies) to have peaceful, even idyllic, anarchy worlds: however, we're looking for a quick fix here, not a political thesis , and the easiest way to bend the canon to fit would be to assume that yes, Anarchy systems used to be part of the Co-operative, back when it was running relatively smoothly, but now with the Thargoid threat pressing ever harder, things are breaking down. The Co-operative needs its member planets to co-operate. The Anarchy worlds, lacking any form of central government, aren't providing any support to the crews in the station. The Viper pilots and station personnel have not been paid for months, and the other Co-op worlds are refusing to bail them out. Eventually things reach a tipping point and the co-op structure collapses in the Anarchies. It's not that the stations all fall into pirate hands, it's just that Co-op control has ended. There's nobody to fly or even maintain the Vipers, and nobody to check the ships coming in or going out. Maybe it's a sign of things to come for the Co-operative ...

As I say, this is a quick fix which could allow criminal players a more immersive experience. The reason for doing it would be to enhance gameplay. If it does, then it's easy to rewrite the canon a bit, for those that want to play this way.

DaddyHoggy wrote:

I think - from two different approaches - we now walk the same common path?

Disembodied wrote:

DaddyHoggy wrote:

I think - from two different approaches - we now walk the same common path?

Definitely! If the devs can allow saving in any station (or at least a broader class of station, rather than just the main system one) then pirate bases, smugglers' dens, etc. and their associated lifestyle choices all become possible. If not/in the meantime, allowing certain systems to fall out of Co-op control (thus producing non-GalCop main stations that the, um, legally challenged can visit safely) would seem to me to be an acceptable OXP compromise.

Lestradae wrote:

I want to summarise two or three ideas that seem to verge on "perhaps doable":

Would it be possible to enable a "save not anywhere and not on carriers but in some (specifically definable) additional stations like Rock Hermits, SIRFs, Navy Stations etc." option like this:

* The station has to have a "can_save" option defined in its shipdata plist

* Mission stations or stations that have a lot of dynamic changing stuff involved and carriers (which are supposedly on the move most of the time) probably shouldn't get this "can_save" option

* The savegame could contain the complete system state of everything in scanner range. That way, even if a pseudo-random thingy is no longer where it was, the most important surroundings of any alternate save-station would still be there - navy ships around the Navy Station, asteroids around the Rock Hermits etc.

That should work, shouldn't it, and reflect the average general consensus emerging, or am I mistaken?

Kaks wrote:

Lestradae wrote:

I want to summarise two or three ideas that seem to verge on "perhaps doable":

Would it be possible to enable a "save not anywhere and not on carriers but in some (specifically definable) additional stations like Rock Hermits, SIRFs, Navy Stations etc." option like this:

* The station has to have a "can_save" option defined in its shipdata plist

* Mission stations or stations that have a lot of dynamic changing stuff involved and carriers (which are supposedly on the move most of the time) probably shouldn't get this "can_save" option

* The savegame could contain the complete system state of everything in scanner range. That way, even if a pseudo-random thingy is no longer where it was, the most important surroundings of any alternate save-station would still be there - navy ships around the Navy Station, asteroids around the Rock Hermits etc.

That should work, shouldn't it, and reflect the average general consensus emerging, or am I mistaken?

*Sigh* as I said a while ago:

Not without some major modifications that will affect absolutely everything in the game, at least in my opinion.

If anyone wants to have all the 'fun' and weeks of testing related to it, they're more than welcome to it. I'm personally not ever going to get near it until at least 1.76.

Kaks wrote:

And again, if anyone of you guys were to take on this - quite monumental - task I'd be more than happy if you were to prove that 'perhaps doable' theory right!