Oolite Bulletins

hiran wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:54 pm

But let's come back to some rules that we want Oolite games to follow.

It is possible to install Oolite. At that moment we have a vanilla game.
Then users can add expansions to their taste (via expansion sets or one by one - I don't care).
Eventually a user starts the game.

Shall it be possible to add expansions to an already running game? (as in: save the game, go to the expansion manager and install/change stuff, then resume the game) or shall new expansions only become effective for a game to be started fresh?

It would imply that when resuming a game we would enforce the correct set of expansions to be present. Those that were there at the start of the game, and nothing else.

Or shall we enforce the expansions from the game are present and we allow more expansions to be present? This would allow users to enrich their game over time.

With 1100+ of the bally things, it might seem a tad restrictive to insist on a brand-new Jameson each time one faffs about with one's cocktail ingredients!

hiran wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:54 pm

But let's come back to some rules that we want Oolite games to follow.

It is possible to install Oolite. At that moment we have a vanilla game.
Then users can add expansions to their taste (via expansion sets or one by one - I don't care).
Eventually a user starts the game.

Shall it be possible to add expansions to an already running game? (as in: save the game, go to the expansion manager and install/change stuff, then resume the game) or shall new expansions only become effective for a game to be started fresh?

It would imply that when resuming a game we would enforce the correct set of expansions to be present. Those that were there at the start of the game, and nothing else.

Or shall we enforce the expansions from the game are present and we allow more expansions to be present? This would allow users to enrich their game over time.

That's what I was getting at with my earlier long-winded response. I think we should allow the installed set to change over time, via the Starter, the Manager and manual downloads. Users will expect to be able to do that; it's a feature of most games that can be modded. (There are exceptions, but not many.)

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:04 am

With 1100+ of the bally things, it might seem a tad restrictive to insist on a brand-new Jameson each time one faffs about with one's cocktail ingredients!

arquebus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:32 am

That's what I was getting at with my earlier long-winded response. I think we should allow the installed set to change over time, via the Starter, the Manager and manual downloads. Users will expect to be able to do that; it's a feature of most games that can be modded. (There are exceptions, but not many.)

If users shall be able to modify the installed set it means OoliteStarter must not recreate the installed set with the information from the savegame. It can only indicate divergence and it is up to the user to take action.

This feature was already there - yet taking action was painful as you would have to read and remember a missing OXP, switch to the OXP tab, search it then install it, reload and come back to see if still something is not right.

So I will simply add functionality to fix the installed set from the start game panel. It should offer to fix
- the selected one
- all missing
- all excess ones
- all

With the above, I now believe the three main use cases should still be separated - otherwise the screen is cluttered with too many items.
The three main uses cases will still be separated over several tabs:
- Start Game
- Expansion Management
- Oolite installations

The reason is that the start game panel does not only show the savegame name. It shows additional information, especially when it comes to the expansions used in that game. It will allow to fix deviations to be more comfortable.

The expansions management tab has changed to the two-list variant. At the same time the information displayed about a single expansion has reduced - we can still discuss what information to display. If you like, look at the old interface which is still available on the experimental tab.

The Oolite Installations for now remains the same as before. I keep in mind we want better support here, especially something like a startup wizard. But for now I am focusing on the regular interface and will then bring the wizard.

Download OoliteStarter v0.1.28-uxbridge.2.

I like this iteration! I agree that the tabbed interface is a good idea.

I'm getting the following error when loading a save:

Could not run game
java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Not supported yet.
You better check the logfiles in $HOME/.Oolite/Logs now

I've located the Logs folder and the logs themselves (with the command prompt - can't find them in Explorer), but when I copy a log out to another location it's still invisible.

Found it! Here's the log:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2hw9dkuc ... 5nmmj&dl=0

arquebus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:39 am

I'm getting the following error when loading a save:

Could not run game
java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Not supported yet.
You better check the logfiles in $HOME/.Oolite/Logs now

I've located the Logs folder and the logs themselves (with the command prompt - can't find them in Explorer), but when I copy a log out to another location it's still invisible.

From the logs I see that you used the new Start Game Panel (from the experimental tab) to resume a savegame. I guess Oolite was started (that's what it did for me) but I did not yet include the full functionality of what the other Starter panel does once Oolite is fired up. In such cases I add a reminder for myself - it is easy to spot both for users and myself.

Since I will stay with the existing Start Game Panel it is unlikely to get fixed. The next version will rather not include the 'small version' at all.

hiran wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:56 am

From the logs I see that you used the new Start Game Panel (from the experimental tab) to resume a savegame. I guess Oolite was started (that's what it did for me) but I did not yet include the full functionality of what the other Starter panel does once Oolite is fired up. In such cases I add a reminder for myself - it is easy to spot both for users and myself.

I'll check to see if the other Start Game does it, too. I remember many versions ago I couldn't get it to work (Oolite would just hang on launch), so I never tested it again and always manually launched the game.

By the way, the error didn't actually interfere with anything. Oolite launched fine and it actually did load the correct save.

arquebus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:04 pm

By the way, the error didn't actually interfere with anything. Oolite launched fine and it actually did load the correct save.

I just checked what the other panel does:
As soon as Oolite is started it puts shows a message that Oolite has been started, the command line and the pid that OoliteStarter is now waiting for.

The old and new Start Game Panels are active side by side. While the new one shows a message box with an error the other just performs the job. Therefore the error or the difference would show impact if we removed the old panel and just tried to rely on the new one.

But I am happy that OoliteStarter now runs Oolite to your expectations. If I had to guess it is related to how OoliteStarter was configured (the directory setup). For an innocent player this can be tricky to get right. Something we need to thoroughly test.

arquebus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:39 am

I'm getting the following error when loading a save:

Could not run game
java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Not supported yet.
You better check the logfiles in $HOME/.Oolite/Logs now

Does OoliteStarter use Java instead of C++ and/or .js javascript files handled by a web browser or Oolite itself?

Switeck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:07 pm

Does OoliteStarter use Java instead of C++ and/or .js javascript files handled by a web browser or Oolite itself?

OoliteStarter is an application programmed in Java, and when the button to start the game is pressed the original Oolite (programmed in C/C++/Objective C) is invoked. At this stage there is nothing else in use at all. JavaScript comes into play when Oolite decides to load and execute expansions.

arquebus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:04 pm

By the way, the error didn't actually interfere with anything. Oolite launched fine and it actually did load the correct save.

I have the next version. The UI has not dramatically changed - but some internals. OoliteStarter now tries not to rescan the whole installed set on every opportunity. There may be still a gap in there I need to cover, but you may take an early look. Feedback is welcome.

OoliteStarter v0.1.28-uxbridge.3

Meanwhile I have even more changes.

I can see newer versions do get downloaded eventually but I hear no comments - neither good nor bad.

What is happening?