Beacons on the Advanced Space Compass

[Thargoid]

Even with Save Anywhere they won't be able to save in that system (it moves the player to the main station, saves and then returns them back where they were).

But it's one system out of that whole galaxy, so they can wait until they go to another one.

[Disembodied]

Even with Save Anywhere they won't be able to save in that system (it moves the player to the main station, saves and then returns them back where they were).

But it's one system out of that whole galaxy, so they can wait until they go to another one.

OK, I see. As you say, it's not a problem. The temporary inability to save could be used as a feature by OXP authors to ratchet up the tension a bit, if it happens near the climax of a time-specific mission ...

[JazHaz]

Getting back on the original topic, ie beacons on the ASC, can we have a check in the code that if planets other than the main planet exist in the system, then adds beacons and/or stations for those planets?

I'm not 100% that this has happened, but with Thargoid's Planetfall Taxi OXP I think I have had a taxi mission to another planet in the system. This can be really hard to do as you can't set your ASC to those other planets.

[Eric Walch]

Could that not be applied as soon as the main station ceases to exist? So ships en route to the planet would turn around and set course immediately, rather than flying to the planet before turning around and (say) flying all the way back out to a constore or something?

In theory yes, but not with the current setup. At the moment the mainStation is the backup in case no random station is found. setTargetToRandomStation uses a range, to avoid choosing a random station of the other side of the system.

The current behaviour when no mainStation is found is:

Code: Select all

"NO_STATION_FOUND" = ("switchAITo: exitingTraderAI.plist");

That is okay. Things only become buggy when an other, distant station, becomes promoted to main station. The good side is that this only can happen by script and than that script becomes responsible to also make the other changes. e.g. giving all traders, police etc. new AIs

Getting back on the original topic, ie beacons on the ASC, can we have a check in the code that if planets other than the main planet exist in the system, then adds beacons and/or stations for those planets?

I assume its the responsibility of the code that adds planets to also add a station around that planet. And if desired a beacon for that station.
Interesting, unrelated fact: In 1.76 and older, all additional planets have shuttles. On average there will be a launch from the planet every 10 to 20 minutes. That shuttle goes to the nearest station. But, considering the fact that shuttles are slow, most planets have no station and the main station is extremely far away, there is a shuttle pilot dying from starvation every 10 to 20 minutes when an oxp adds additional distant planets.
Trunk now checks for stations near the planet. When there is no station around, the number of shuttles is set to zero. When a script also puts a station in orbit, you will have shuttle traffic between that station and his planet.

for testing I added to my system_demux version:

Code: Select all

this.addStationsRoundPlanets = function ()
{
    for (var i=1; i < system.planets.length; i++)
    {
        var planet = system.planets[i];
        if (planet.hasAtmosphere)
        {
            var p = planet.position.add(Vector3D.randomDirection(planet.radius*2));
            var station = system.addShips("coriolis", 1, p, 0)[0];
            station.orientation = planet.position.subtract(station.position).direction().rotationTo(new Vector3D(0,0,1));
            var b = p.add(station.vectorForward.multiply(10000));
            system.addShips("buoy", 1, b, 0);
        }
    }
}

[Wildeblood]

The temporary inability to save could be used as a feature by OXP authors to ratchet up the tension a bit, if it happens near the climax of a time-specific mission ...

That's precisely my reason for disliking the idea of messing about with this game feature. I'd call that a malicious exploit. I'd expect the developers to start curating OXPs to see it didn't happen. That means turning the OXP list on the wiki into two lists: approved OXPs and OXPs with approval pending. (It's the thin end of the wedge, I tell you!)

Getting back on the original topic, ie beacons on the ASC, can we have a check in the code that if planets other than the main planet exist in the system, then adds beacons and/or stations for those planets?

Plus one to that. A planetary beacons OXP - that checks for extra planets and adds a nearby buoy - is on my to-do list*, but should really be handled by Oolite. (Ultimate goal if the devs feel like a challenge would be to split the compass into two dials: gravitometer and transponder, with star and planets on the first, and beacon list on the second.)

* Ambition precedes ability, as usual.

[Wildeblood]

Getting back on the original topic, ie beacons on the ASC, can we have a check in the code that if planets other than the main planet exist in the system, then adds beacons and/or stations for those planets?

Plus one to that. A planetary beacons OXP - that checks for extra planets and adds a nearby buoy - is on my to-do list*, but should really be handled by Oolite.

No, I retract that, it is an OXP task. My planets are well separated and can't easily be found, but with the default sun and planet distances other people use it's not an issue finding the extra planets, more often avoiding bumping into them by accident is the problem.

[JazHaz]

Getting back on the original topic, ie beacons on the ASC, can we have a check in the code that if planets other than the main planet exist in the system, then adds beacons and/or stations for those planets?

I assume its the responsibility of the code that adds planets to also add a station around that planet. And if desired a beacon for that station.

Yes, you would think that. However there are several OXPs that add additional planets, and as far as I know, none of them add beacons or stations.

It may be that there isn't a standard way of adding planets, and if so there's a case to add this to the code, that includes adding beacons/stations too.

Interesting, unrelated fact: In 1.76 and older, all additional planets have shuttles. On average there will be a launch from the planet every 10 to 20 minutes. That shuttle goes to the nearest station. But, considering the fact that shuttles are slow, most planets have no station and the main station is extremely far away, there is a shuttle pilot dying from starvation every 10 to 20 minutes when an oxp adds additional distant planets.

Interesting, also LOL.

[Thargoid]

It may be that there isn't a standard way of adding planets, and if so there's a case to add this to the code, that includes adding beacons/stations too.

There is a standard way (indeed it's the only way) - system.addPlanet (and system.addMoon for moons). But I'd be against arbitrarily having beacons put on every example of one, as there may be cases when one is not wanted (especially for a moon). But it could be an option, with a new key in the planetinfo.plist entry used for the spawning.

Sadly one trick that doesn't work is the one I used in tracker.oxp, as anything spawned inside a planet is immediately destroyed, even using the "ghost entity" method.

[Eric Walch]

It may be that there isn't a standard way of adding planets, and if so there's a case to add this to the code, that includes adding beacons/stations too.

It should be up to the code that adds planets to also add the station. Only the author knows if it should be a habitable planet or just a gas-giant. And when doing it in a separate oxp, you must be sure your code runs after the planet addition. I updated the code sniplet I added a few messages back. When adding that in the planet adding oxp, it will place a station at all his planets with atmosphere and put a default buoy in front of it. In this setup, they all have the default N buoy, but that could be customised of cause.

[Disembodied]

The temporary inability to save could be used as a feature by OXP authors to ratchet up the tension a bit, if it happens near the climax of a time-specific mission ...

That's precisely my reason for disliking the idea of messing about with this game feature. I'd call that a malicious exploit. I'd expect the developers to start curating OXPs to see it didn't happen. That means turning the OXP list on the wiki into two lists: approved OXPs and OXPs with approval pending. (It's the thin end of the wedge, I tell you!)

I think you're overstating the case there. It's not a "malicious exploit", it would just be a method whereby an OXP author – whose product you are not compelled to download – could temporarily constrain a player's scope of action within the confines of one system, at one point in an OXP mission. If the player is too jelly-kneed to continue with the mission because they can't save the game in this one system, at this key point in the proceedings, they can always chicken out, jump out and save their game in a nearby system whose station hasn't been destroyed. They might fail the mission, but it's no more a "malicious exploit" than another mission OXP turning players into fugitives, or setting packs of Thargoids on their tails wherever they go.

It's already possible for anyone so minded to write a "malicious" OXP which sticks the player in a hopeless situation – which dumps them in a cutoff pocket of stars without the ability to buy a Galactic drive to get them out again, for example. Are you imagining an OXP which somehow destroyed all stations everywhere and prevented the player from ever saving their game? And which somehow also prevented the player from binning the OXP?

[JazHaz]

I think perhaps Planetfall OXP ought to be enhanced with code that gives beacons to other planets. Then even if the minor planets don't have stations in orbit, you could navigate to them and land on them. These surface bases would be small, perhaps research outposts, with limited trade, no shipyards, but with the possibility of taxi missions.

[Thargoid]

No, as Planetfall specifically does not add any planets or moons itself.

That is done always by other OXPs (of which there are a few to choose from) and it may be that those do so for reasons of there own which may not want to advertise their presence. It would be potentially rather rude to arbitrarily override that, hence it is better for those OXPs to do the beacon addition.

I'll be honest I'm personally rather dubious on the whole concept of planetary beacons (including the main planet), but navigationally it's probably a necessary evil.

[Commander McLane]

I'd also say that generally he who adds a planet should be responsible for giving it a beacon (or not).

And there are good reasons for not giving secondary planets a beacon. For instance the secondary planet(s) can be intended purely as eye candy, without station or any traffic.

[Zireael]

Manual docking is, I think, by far and away the biggest bar to new players' enjoyment of the game. It's part of the Elite legacy, right enough, but to be honest in this day and age it's more bad game design than endearing quirk. At the end of a long run – where you might have had half-a-dozen epic battles and scraped through with your cargo by the skin of your teeth – the last thing anyone wants is the chance to lose it all by crashing when trying to park. Granted, it's easier than it was back in the day now the dock is more than just a rectangle drawn on the station's surface, and it's a skill you can acquire, but lots of people are probably going to give up in frustration before they get the chance to acquire it. My 2Cr worth is, even if it's only useful for newbies, the game's hard enough to start with as it is – keep the station navigation buoy. And slow down the station rotation in the core game too, for that matter – it makes the stations seem larger and makes docking less fatal for those who are still getting the hang of it.

I agree wholeheartedly.

On that topic: could similar docking helpers be done for secondary stations... rock hermits, for example?

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I also second the idea of a "SetMainStation (foo)" function or whatever it was supposed to be like instead of randomly promoting sth to be the main station.

Removing/lessening the differences between the main station and the secondary station are also a good idea.

I'd also say that generally he who adds a planet should be responsible for giving it a beacon (or not).

Seconded.

[snork]

On that topic: could similar docking helpers be done for secondary stations... rock hermits, for example?

Rock Hermit Locator adds them to Rock Hermits.