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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:58 am
by Simon B
More shots from my install:
... better views of the bumpy station - I tried this trick with the dodo and iso to no effect - still dunno what went wrong.
The big green triangle blocking the bottom half of the shot is the nose of the cougar ... if you look at the model, putting the viewpoint in the middle of the cockpit window will do this. It's somewhat annoying but it's a very tough ship - so maybe it's worth it.
Mostly, I'm adjusting the poorer views so they ore still plausible but not so restrictive. Particularly with the less popular ships. So you can drive something tough with annoying quirks or something that is nice to fly but dicier in combat ;)
I do need someone to check this out though.
... here's what started it all - a full-shaded (neo)python. Note the S shape on the cargo-bay doors? It's following the triangle edges. I could have avoided that by using a normalmap to make the crack in the doors - but didn't know about it then.
... one of he more contraversial models - I cannot remember how far the shaders had got when I took that.
Bouys - the designs I've got all have a central spike with a number of vanes radiating out - the vanes could boast decals for sponsors and/or advertising.
With shaders - ads can involve flashing neon signs - but I've never liked YAH. If anything, I'd want to restrict ads to corporate systems - maybe poor systems close to them.
Shaders Reality Check
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:47 am
by Simon B
The plist shader entry I'm using is as follows:
Code: Select all
shaders =
{
"worm-neolite-default.png" =
{
"vertex_shader" = "neolite-std.vs";
"fragment_shader" = "neolite-std.fs";
textures =
(
"worm-neolite-default.png",
"worm-neolite-effectsmap.png",
"worm-neolite-normalmap.png"
);
uniforms =
{
uColourMap = { type = texture; value = 0; };
uFXMap = { type = texture; value = 1; };
uNormalMap = { type = texture; value = 2; };
SpecularRGB = { type = vector; value = "1.0 0.7 0.5 1.0";};
uTime = "universalTime";
uEngineLevel = "speedFactor";
uHullHeatLevel= "hullHeatLevel";
};
};
};
Convering this by hand to XML suggests the following translation:
Code: Select all
<key>shaders</key>
<dict>
<key>shipname-neolite-default.png</key>
<dict>
<key>fragment_shader</key>
<string>neolite-std.fs</string>
<key>vertex_shader</key>
<string>neolite-std-vs</string>
<key>textures</key>
<array>
<string>shipname-neolite-default.png</string>
<string>shipname-neolite-effectsmap.png</string>
<string>shipname-neolite-normalmap.png</string>
</array>
<key>uniforms</key>
<dict>
<key>uColorMap</key>
<dict>
<key>type</key>
<string>texture</string>
<key>value</key>
<integer>0</integer>
</dict>
<key>uFXMap</key>
<dict>
<key>type</key>
<string>texture</string>
<key>value</key>
<integer>1</integer>
</dict>
<key>uTime</key>
<string>universalTime</string>
<key>uEngineLevel</key>
<string>speedFactor</string>
<key>uHullHeatLevel</key>
<string>hullHeatLevel</string>
</dict>
</dict>
</dict>
I'm particularly concerned with the uFXMap and uColorMap entries.
[edit: note the integers start from 0 in xml]
Of course I'm off to see if it works - it's just that troubleshooting these plists is an Uber-PITA of the nth degree ... so I'll hit trouble, headbut the keyboard, come back and see what spelling mistakes people have spotted.
BTW: discovered why the bumpy trick didn't work on the dod etc - I'd put a }; in the wrong place - but sufficiently cunningly that it did not generate an error. These things are all-but invisible!
Re: Shaders Reality Check
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:59 am
by Diziet Sma
Simon B wrote:BTW: discovered why the bumpy trick didn't work on the dod etc - I'd put a }; in the wrong place - but sufficiently cunningly that it did not generate an error. These things are all-but invisible!
This is where it's handy to have somebody who knows nothing about coding looking over your shoulder... by not being concerned with the intricacies, they often spot inconsistencies in patterns, and tend to say helpful things like "shouldn't that ',' be a ';' "
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:52 am
by Micha
Simon B wrote:
Bouys - the designs I've got all have a central spike with a number of vanes radiating out - the vanes could boast decals for sponsors and/or advertising.
With shaders - ads can involve flashing neon signs - but I've never liked YAH. If anything, I'd want to restrict ads to corporate systems - maybe poor systems close to them.
I wasn't all that keen on YAH myself mainly because of the billboard-buoy design, which is why I hacked mine so I at least get the stations and missions, which I -do- like.
Hence my suggestion that a new buoy shape could integrate nicely to double as an ad-display. Other OXPs (eg Commies, Lave, Tianve) also use the 'billboard' to display stuff. In general I like the flavouring, just not the use of the billboards as a buoy-replacement.
If we have a new buoy shape which can -optionally- display ads then I think these OXPs could integrate better into the core game (if there's interest by the OXP authors to do so). The main requirement here would be to leverage the existing ad assets for any new 'ad buoy' design though as a lot of effort went into making them.
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:53 am
by CaptKev
Simon B wrote:Deviants: variants of common ships ... collaboration invited here. Take an existing model and add your own skin or modify it to fit one of the variants.
No sure if this is of any use? I've just replaced the stripes and symbols with something more recognisable as a GalCop viper.
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:34 am
by Simon B
That's the idea - there are several galcop liveries already.
I've been contiuing the bumpy station experiments ... here's a closeup of the approach, from an adder. A Mussurana jumped queue as I was lining up this shot.
... as usual - click the thumb for a bigger pic.
I like the metallic sheen in this shot, so I've got the effects right for the outside. The dock itself seems a wee bit warmly lit - though it is inviting (that is all reflected light BTW - only flashers inside the dock - no glow maps anywhere).
It may be interesting to give it a coppery or black skin instead of the silver (which comes from the classic texture - I've added only the shaders, nothing else.).
On the downside, it is clear from this shot that the normalmapping fails at the edges and where another model intersects it. This means that I do need borders of some kind, and the arcs need to be normalmapped in.
Or - just use a flatter pattern ...
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:25 am
by DaddyHoggy
Like the shininess of the Coriolis but not the bumpiness - it's too random and too dramatic - a few raised plates - sensor grid - conduit pipes, access grills but not - as others have said - random greebling, it doesn't work on the stations.
Re: YAH - bah humbug! But I would say that wouldn't I?
EDIT: Forgot to say - liked the Moray very much - always did.
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:25 pm
by Simon B
... the good news is that the companion shaders work - the only wrinkle discovered so far was that the xml version has to count from 0 instead of 1 ... or I get shiny green ships.
All the effects maps are done for the companion - just normal maps to go. So I'm on-target for v1.0 releases before the end of the month.
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:11 pm
by Simon B
Continuing the station experiments ... here's the thumbs:
... small bumps far a bit of texture. you need the big version if you want to see it.
However, the message I'm getting is that something more technological-looking. Maybe:
... need to center the raised circle.
Interestingly, the circle is alternately raised and recessed on the other sides, and it's the same normalmap. That's 512x512 mapping too - if I double it I get sharper lines.
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:22 pm
by Kaks
Intriguing, but somehow it looks that all those bump maps are just too chunky for the station... Maybe finer detailing might work better...
Just my 2p worth!
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:47 pm
by Thargoid
For me if you can get away from the wallpaper look then it would be better. I'd agree with Kaks, they just look too chunky, especially if you think of the scale that the stations represent.
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:12 pm
by Disembodied
Seconded from me. I like the technological structure but it would be better without the woodchip effect!
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:40 am
by Simon B
... this is the same thing with a centered circle and borders.
The rougher lower levels will look better when it's a different color - meantime I've scaled the map down so the levels are not as chunky.
If I use finer detail - I'll get wallpaper artifacts.
If I add lights - then the scale will become more apparent.
There's something I want to show you - watch closely:
... there is an artifact in that shot - the entire model uses the same normalmap - each square side has it's own texture. Notice that the lower (lit) square has the opposite relief to the top (shadowed) square?
The station rotates bottom to top in that shot - when the lower square rotates to the top, it's relief flips over. The effect is like a light switching out. I'm hoping it is fixed by flipping the sence of the normal map for those panels - though I have to work out which they are.
I've been getting similar from every model where there is a pronounced angle between two panels using the same normal map.
Until I've got these sorts of wrinkles ironed out, I'm not going to play with maps which are very complex: each redo is pretty much from the beginning you see.
If someone knows of a good texture for a station (a simple one thanks) point me at it. Of course, you can create one as well ... just create a height map - black=bottom, white=top. (The squares on the coriolis uv-maps are full-size but 45 degrees to the texture border. The triangles are the left-over areas.)
I can create a
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:02 am
by Simon B
Testing out the ideas - i've altered the specular so top surfaces are more reflective and added a darker color to the bottom, rougher, layer. Lit windows provide scale.
... the docking approach. Don't you just hate it when there's a cop just sitting behind you?
... The Lave Coriolis viewed from a Cobra mkIII - twice. This station is in shadow, so you can see the lights better.
The artifact noted before turns out to be intractable ... I'll have to redo the model.
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:03 am
by Killer Wolf
as a "normal" Coriolis, i think those textures look awful....but as part of an OXP about a lost (Aztec?!) civilisation w/ stone-carved stations, they'd be awesome! That might be a canny idea, have some ancient-looking ships, and planets/moon w/ Nazca-esque patterns.
