Oolite Bulletins

Apart from helping mandoman to fix his personal copies of OXPs, is anybody alerting the OXP authors/maintainers to the bugs found? Or are all of those fixed already, and mandoman just happened to install obsolete versions?

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And just as a side note to all OXPers: it would be really helpful for finding the culprits of errors if everybody would follow a naming convention that makes it easy to identify them.

An entity name like "Spiv-player", "Lambdashuttle" or "frame-itsatrap" doesn't tell you anything about where to look for that entry, and the same applies to file names like "IrScanner.js" or "spear_top.png". Debugging shouldn't have to rely on someone on the boards happening to know by chance where this or that entry or file is located.

My suggestion: always precede everything with the OXP name. Example: the shipdata entry "anarchies-hacker-outpost" uses the model "anarchies-hacker-rock.dat" and the texture "anarchies-hacker-rock.png", all it's subentities have names beginning with "anarchies", it uses "anarchiesHackerOutpostAI.plist" and has a ship script named "anarchies-hacker-outpost-script.js" attached to it. I think you see the pattern. Should anything go wrong and produce an error message in the log, it always would clearly identify the OXP it's coming from by name, because everything begins with the name of the OXP. No guess work necessary.

i'll be amending my stuff at the weekend. I usually name most stuff now w/ a "kw" prefix, so i'll redo Werewolves to follow that too.

Commander McLane wrote:

My suggestion: always precede everything with the OXP name.

This. As well as making it easier to track things down, this also reduces the chance of OXPs using the same names for things.

Commander McLane wrote:

Apart from helping mandoman to fix his personal copies of OXPs, is anybody alerting the OXP authors/maintainers to the bugs found? Or are all of those fixed already, and mandoman just happened to install obsolete versions?

I'm pretty certain I've posted about the Werewolf things and the G/gecko_DS.png one before. Although this was possibly soon after I first started Oolite/on the boards, so some of them might well have been in a general "Case sensitivity log errors" post all lumped together, instead of in their proper respective threads...
I don't remember if I ever got around to reporting the AAACrooks problems or not. And I think most of my other help in this thread has been guesswork, so would have to be confirmed by someone who has the oxps.

You have a number of different sound oxps installed: BGS-A (which contains everything that BGS has to offer - background images, sounds and music), e5amigasoundpack.oxp, and custsounds.oxp. While multiple shipsets often have the ability to "play nice" with each other, I suspect that multiple soundsets will overwrite each other when they try to customise the same sound, with the one you hear being the last one loaded. My suggestion would be to choose one of these, rather than have all of them.

Got rid of all but the e5amigasoundpack.oxp. Not sure yet if that is the one I'll keep, but I see what you mean by too many sound packs. Thanks.

External views is, I believe, redundant. It's functionality was incorporated into the core game long ago, and so the oxp is unnecessary.

Removed. Thanks.

This is in the DeepspaceShip.oxp. Rename the texture file "gecko_DS.png" to "Gecko_DS.png".

I hope you were referring to Griff's Gecko, because that's the only one I could find in the AddOns folder. I changed all of the .pngs in that .txt.

you need to search the shipdata.plist in farstar.oxp for "piratetAI.plist" and change it to "pirateAI.plist". Looks like a simple uncorrected typo.

Done. Thanks.

Again, I don't have this oxp, but judging from the Star Wars reference I'm guessing that it comes from within the a-wing.oxp

I just removed that a-wing.oxp. I don't need that anyway.

Clearly the error is in the shipyard.plist in the Firewasp.oxp. Linux is not recognising the file as a proper plist. Which could mean that there's an extra comma floating around, or that something hasn't been closed off properly. Have a look at the file and see if you notice anything out of place.

I'll take a look. Thanks.

General advice: Try to be aware of what you're installing (ReadMe files and wiki pages can be helpful) to decide if you need it or if there could be an obvious conflict with other oxps

Good advice. Wish I had realized that ahead of time, but I'm kind of new to scripting. Thanks so much for all your help.

Aquatics adds ships before the mission, not just after it. Whilst it does contain a mission too, it adds the ships in all galaxies and so is perfectly legitimate in installation here. The mission bit shuts down fairly much until G3 is reached, so there's little overhead there.

OK, that's cool. I'll just put it back in when I hit Galaxy 3, just to be safe. Thanks.

Oh and also you have a couple of errors in the log relating to the debug (javascript) console. Those can be safely ignored as you don't have it installed, but do have basic-debug.oxp in there (it ships with the game).

That's good to know. I suspected something like that, but I don't really know what is what, yet. I'm hoping to learn.

And just as a side note to all OXPers: it would be really helpful for finding the culprits of errors if everybody would follow a naming convention that makes it easy to identify them.

That WOULD be nice, and much appreciated. May I also suggest a list be made, and continued, of oxps that are affected/outdated by newer ones, and a warning NOT to use them. Maybe even removing the outdated oxps from the list would even be best. I know better now, but when I first started downloading all those oxps I didn't have a clue. If this is already being done, could someone point me to it? I know that each oxp lists compatability, but that's not always clear......at least to an idiot like me.

Much thanks to all of you for your help.

mandoman wrote:

That WOULD be nice, and much appreciated. May I also suggest a list be made, and continued, of oxps that are affected/outdated by newer ones, and a warning NOT to use them. Maybe even removing the outdated oxps from the list would even be best. I know better now, but when I first started downloading all those oxps I didn't have a clue. If this is already being done, could someone point me to it? I know that each oxp lists compatability, but that's not always clear......at least to an idiot like me.

In a sense this has already been done, and I referred you to it back on page three of this thread here when I pointed you to the OXP table which clearly lists the OXPs (in the main table) which are compatible with the current release, and also lists the broken ones, which as they are broken clearly shouldn't be used.

mandoman wrote:

This is in the DeepspaceShip.oxp. Rename the texture file "gecko_DS.png" to "Gecko_DS.png".

I hope you were referring to Griff's Gecko, because that's the only one I could find in the AddOns folder. I changed all of the .pngs in that .txt.

Nope, I was referring to the Gecko in the DeepspaceShip.oxp set, which the log said you had installed at the time. I don't think there were any problems with the Griff stuff.

I notice that again your OXP list is growing faster than a population of Rabbits.
It is going to be extremely hard to work out which OXP is doing what (and therefore which ones you really need/want) if you just add them by the dozen.
As I suggested before somewhere on this thread, I would urge you to slow down so that you can stay in touch with what you are adding.
Seriously, just add them one at a time and play them for a few days at least before you add the next one. See what they do individually so you know exactly what you've installed. Then add the next one. You can see what the next one does, check the log for errors - this will pinpoint any OXP with problems easily - and see how it plays with those already installed.
It may be that eventually you will get them all working, but that's still a hell of a lot. To give you an idea, I have 15 OXPs installed, and my guess is that few people would have more than 30-40. The idea is to install the ones that genuinely add to your game in real, meaningful ways, not just install anything and everything. Your choice of course, at the end of the day.

Commander McLane wrote:

Unfortunately I don't know anything about Linux and how to install Oolite there. My best advice is that you completely remove your current Oolite installation(s) and start from scratch. While you're at it, you should install Oolite 1.75.2, because that's the most recent version. Your log shows that you still have installed 1.75.1.

Best advice I've seen in this whole view topic. Top of page 2. Everything should have been deleted and started from scratch, oxp's included.

Bugs in other oxps aside, NEVER install every oxp without adding them a few at a time and testing the result. Probably half of the oxps available for download have some kind of issues, most not enough to crash the computer. I've read a lot of threads from the past 4 or 5 years in the last 2 months. Most bugs get reported but are these followed up on? Does the developer get the information? If every oxp that has a view topic had a link from the download at the wiki page then problems would/could be reported that way in the proper topic. It seems that this even doesn't work as when I have a direct link in the wiki page for my oxps where you download from to the view topic there are still people making new topics just to make a comment on something they don't like about it. Developers can't win even when we take appropriate steps. Imagine what happens when we don't or we are unavailable(for whatever reason) to fix the oxp bug.

As far as helping mandoman is it wise to try to help debug his problem with the AddOns folder full of some incompatible and even broken oxps. Should be standard practice to help by first dealing with a bad install by starting with a clean slate and getting the basic install working right as there might be hardware problems too. I saw mandoman mention cutting and pasting? at the beginning. would this have an effect on his problems?

Perhaps a notice to users at the top of the oxp lists warning users of prudent oxp installation methods and to check oxp wiki pages for links to report problems before posting on the bugs forum.

You guys do an incredible job considering you can't see the computer setup you are debugging just the logs. Maybe your job can and should be made easier by all those involved. Kudos to all of you.

Smivs wrote:

mandoman wrote:

That WOULD be nice, and much appreciated. May I also suggest a list be made, and continued, of oxps that are affected/outdated by newer ones, and a warning NOT to use them. Maybe even removing the outdated oxps from the list would even be best. I know better now, but when I first started downloading all those oxps I didn't have a clue. If this is already being done, could someone point me to it? I know that each oxp lists compatability, but that's not always clear......at least to an idiot like me.

In a sense this has already been done, and I referred you to it back on page three of this thread here when I pointed you to the OXP table which clearly lists the OXPs (in the main table) which are compatible with the current release, and also lists the broken ones, which as they are broken clearly shouldn't be used.

Yeah, I know that now. I also know that I'm impatient to try them all, but I'll try to slow down, as you suggest.

Smivs wrote:

I notice that again your OXP list is growing faster than a population of Rabbits.
It is going to be extremely hard to work out which OXP is doing what (and therefore which ones you really need/want) if you just add them by the dozen.
As I suggested before somewhere on this thread, I would urge you to slow down so that you can stay in touch with what you are adding.
Seriously, just add them one at a time and play them for a few days at least before you add the next one. See what they do individually so you know exactly what you've installed. Then add the next one. You can see what the next one does, check the log for errors - this will pinpoint any OXP with problems easily - and see how it plays with those already installed.
It may be that eventually you will get them all working, but that's still a hell of a lot. To give you an idea, I have 15 OXPs installed, and my guess is that few people would have more than 30-40. The idea is to install the ones that genuinely add to your game in real, meaningful ways, not just install anything and everything. Your choice of course, at the end of the day.

OK, I can take a hint, even the first one. I won't bother you with my questions anymore. I really do appreciate all your help, though.

mandoman wrote:

I won't bother you with my questions anymore. I really do appreciate all your help, though.

Seriously, we are always happy to help, and it's no bother. As much as anything we're trying to save you more anguish. I think we all know how frustrating things like this can get.

What Smivs said is right, mandoman... we are always happy to answer questions, and to help if we can.
All we ask is that you follow any advice given... and slow down a little, you could have years of playing this amazing game.

Smivs wrote:

mandoman wrote:

I won't bother you with my questions anymore. I really do appreciate all your help, though.

Seriously, we are always happy to help, and it's no bother. As much as anything we're trying to save you more anguish. I think we all know how frustrating things like this can get.

El Viejo wrote:

What Smivs said is right, mandoman... we are always happy to answer questions, and to help if we can.
All we ask is that you follow any advice given... and slow down a little, you could have years of playing this amazing game.

What they said!

I understand the temptation to overdose on oxps. I'm one of those who has well over a hundred in my AddOns folder. (I like my multiple shipsets and extra ships...) But I've generally built it up over time, considered which fit into how I see my Ooniverse, and added them bit by bit. (Or rather, in lumps, once I got the hang of it and knew how to go about debugging...) And I always read the ReadMe files and wiki pages! They tell you what to expect, how it should work, and therefore you tend to know when it's going wrong. Patience is a virtue in this case, and it takes far less time to remove one rogue oxp than to have identify it out of a large bunch!

OK, and believe me, I'm listening. I cleared my AddOns folder of everything but the Werewolf (sorry, I'm addicted to it now), griff_shipset_all_in_one, Smivs' shipset-HD, Cabal_Common_Library, Armoury 1.07, accessories, and Fuel Station 1.32 (I really like those things). My next move will be to start trying the different sound oxps to find what work togther well/I like best. I'll try to take it one oxp at a time. As was said, I may be playing this game for a long time.....it's very likely, in fact.