Oolite Bulletins

I like the stationary Frigate & Escort's at the WS beacon, as Zygo said, there is something intimidating about them being there. Shows the navy are serious.

I don't think they need to patrol, as they will move to engage hostiles in the area.

On a related note, I once jumped into a system and a credit pinata/Thardoig Carrier jump in behind me as they usually do. What I didn't expect was for a Navy Leviathan to also promptly jump in, launch Paragon escorts and smack the crap out of the carrier in next to no time. That looked pretty cool.

If I have one suggestion for naval vessels, especially the bigger ones with turrets, it is that they broadcast a message to non-hostile ships that stray into the firing solution of their plasma turrets.

Also agree with CaptnEcho on co-ordination of Navy ships, especially on missions. At present, they pretty much just fly after whatever targets they can, rather than working as a team to bring down individual targets quickly.

Sendraks wrote:

Also agree with CaptnEcho on co-ordination of Navy ships, especially on missions. At present, they pretty much just fly after whatever targets they can, rather than working as a team to bring down individual targets quickly.

Yes, but how to do that properly?

For example, Frigates and similar ships should engage Thargoid Battleships - but what about the smaller ones? They surely are better at fighting off Thargoid Warships and Invaders.

If I find myself surrounded by Thargs, I usually go for their weakest ships first - that does create minimum laser heat for a big reduction in hostile fire power.

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Might be able to do that with a JS script on the navy ships detecting the current targets mass (in general the more dangerous types of thargoids are also bigger) and sending an AI message "TARGET_BIG", "TARGET_SMALL", "TARGET_MEDIUM" etc to the navy ships AI. The navy ships AI would have to react differently, so a cruiser getting a TARGET_BIG message attacks, but a fighter getting the same message looks for other targets attacking smaller ones in preference. A d number could also be used so that a fighter will somtimes take on a battleship, but most times will look for a smaller target if available.

I was thinking of them waiting so that when you Witch' in you get this, with the frigate in the middle..

Has anyone recently fought Thargoid fleets from GalNavy?

I've seen them a few times shooting up themselves before they reach the navy ships...I wonder why, as they should not even have friendly fire problems so far away, as there's noone else but Thargoids...

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Are they shooting themselves up or crashing into each other before they get into scanner range? I've never seen the former but have seen the latter.

On my earlier point of Gal Navy squad tactics, it is less about ships of varying sizes attacking ships of similar sizes and more the ships working as a cohesive unit. This is particularly noticeable on the pirate missions, where you are with a squad of cobra sized vessels. The squad doesn't follow the squad leader in combat and instead target different vessels, all lala-ing off in random directions and some of them getting shot to sh*t.

The squad mechanic would work better if they tried to stick to taking out the squadron leaders target and then move to the next target they pick.

Sendraks wrote:

Are they shooting themselves up or crashing into each other before they get into scanner range? I've never seen the former but have seen the latter.

They are shooting...

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That's weird.

Maybe they get bored real easy and have to shoot at each other?

LittleBear wrote:

Might be able to do that with a JS script on the navy ships detecting the current targets mass (in general the more dangerous types of thargoids are also bigger) and sending an AI message "TARGET_BIG", "TARGET_SMALL", "TARGET_MEDIUM" etc to the navy ships AI. The navy ships AI would have to react differently, so a cruiser getting a TARGET_BIG message attacks, but a fighter getting the same message looks for other targets attacking smaller ones in preference. A d number could also be used so that a fighter will somtimes take on a battleship, but most times will look for a smaller target if available.

Real battles during World War II and Naval Exercises by various nations before WWII illustrated how capitol ships could be destroyed via the bombs and torpedoes of fighters, fighter-bombers and torpedo planes flown from aircraft carriers.
Coordinated attacks could involve Galactic Navy ships of all sizes.

The idea of having fighters (that have expended their missiles or other ordnance) select small ships to target has merit.

And I agree with Sendraks that Galactic Navy fighters would seem much more professional if they flew in formation and tried to fight as a whole units (squadrons, wings, flights, or in pairs with a wing leader & wingman attacking one target while a second leader & second wingman attacked the same target or an alternate target).

On reserve missions with only reserve fighters/freighters, the formation is sometimes made up of the player, several Cobras (a mix of Mk-I and Mk-III models) and led by an Asp which flies faster than the Cobras. Eventually the whole formation gets strung-out while on their patrol route because the Asp flies faster than the rest of the ships in formation.

How to simulate or script these ideas into A.I. behavior does seem to make for good discussion.

There is just one problem with to well coordinated attacks: It does not leave room for he player, battles are over when the player arrives.

The AI has only one group command: groupAttackTarget. However, the only groups are:
a) pritate groups added by the populator
b) thargoid groups added by the populator
c) a mother with its escorts
d) a station/carrier with its defenders

Group members receiving a groupAttackTarget instruction change target by chance-factor and not always when they already have a target.

All groups of ships added by script are added as single ships. (since 1.73 there are scripting methods to melt them into a group). For Galactic Navy only the Behemoth battle-group it added as group because it is added as a mother with escorts.

For the plain Behemoth from behemoth.oxp, the carrier does a target evaluation and when in fight is sends a new groupAttackTarget instruction when he is hit by a new ship that was more powerful than its last target.

(1.73 has a bug that when a carrier has both defenders and escorts, only the defenders get groupAttack instructions. That is probably the reason why the battlegroup from GN does not work that effective as it did with 1.72 or with future 1.74)

Eric Walch wrote:

There is just one problem with to well coordinated attacks: It does not leave room for he player, battles are over when the player arrives.

Yes? Really? When it comes to fighting a Thargoid Fleet or a Pirate Base, those Navy Guys just are there for the looks. They are usually not able to fire a single shot unless I give them the time to do so

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Against the Thargoid fleets, the sheer number of Navy ships means they do get a few kills in. Against the pirate ships, where there is a much smaller number of navy ships, they're pretty useless.

I don't have a problem with the player being second fiddle to the navy pilots, they are the navy after all. I do find it a little odd that seemingly the player is the wing commander for navy activities.

Little bug:

When I jumped to G5 I was welcomed by galactic navy to G4 jurisdiction...

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Apologies if it's presumptuous of me, but I believe the "Reserve Duty - Route the Thargoid Invaders at xxxx" should be "rout" (qv http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/we ... h=000000#c).

Novice that I am, I really enjoy this OXP. Conceptually, as well as practically.

A couple of things:

1. In the really enormous pitched battles - with scores of Navy ships - things get so hectic, more than once I have accidentally zapped a Navy ship when the Thargoid I was attacking blew up and my shot continued through to the other side. Not a bug, just I need to get more accurate. Oops...

2. I imagine missions are randomly generated, but a common one - I've done it several times - involves tackling "a pirate base" - which seems to be a big asteroid, rogue frigate, and pirate fleet. It seems too easy to (unscrupulously, I admit - I hate using energy weapons normally) witchspace up close, out of range of the reserve wing, detonate an energy weapon destroying all but the frigate, then pick off the frigate with lasers. Maybe if the pirate base couldn't be destroyed by energy weapons, and detonating one released a hail of attack ships or plasma fire?

3. This is completely out there, but I thought a fun addition might be occasional recognition for a really good sortie. Sometimes "your participation has been recognised" comes after taking down just one or two Invaders/Carriers. Two kills, some bounty, and you're free to move on. Other times, lengthy battles with many kills ensue. Perhaps if you registered a certain number of kills in one battle, you could win a "medal" or something? Just a thought.

Anyway, great OXP - really terrific addition, in my view.

Edit: And I love the "the Thargoid Ambassador said..." statements in Recent News :D