Oolite Bulletins

Smivs wrote:

However I could happily believe that Thargoids might lurk off-lane looking for unwary lone travellers. They don't want a fight, they are looking for easy pickings. They might need a few subjects for their gruesome vivisections, or perhaps they just fancy a snack. Whatever, a good number of Thargoids off-lane is believable, especially if we believe they have tech which allows them to spot a lone ship from witchspace. They just pop up and grab what they want from time to time. Believable in game, and more importabtly about the only situation where an adversary could be introduced near to the player specifically for this purpose without breaking immersion.

This is true: if anybody is going to have the ability to automagically warp in from nowhere and dry-gulch some lonely pilot, it's the Thargoids. It wouldn't even need to be all that common: a one in ten chance perhaps - maybe more common in less heavily patrolled systems. Enough to help persuade the unequipped to Stay On The Path.

ralph_hh wrote:

I'm fighting Thargoids more than usual recently, because of that native mission in G3. It's ok, but after a while, it get's boring. Shot the 2-3 mother ships, ignore, shoot or collect the drones, then back to business. I prefere variable groups of 3 to 7 made of variable ship types.

If my memory isn't wrong, the drones in the original Elite were more of a problem en masse. These just seam to fly around waiting for you to destroy the mother ship.
I do think that Thargoids can provide a better deux ex machina than pirates, and have a lot more handwaveium room. A Thargoid is something to run away from if you've not got a Mil laser and good shields. With those they can be good hunting, if you might/could/will be attacked off lane by Thargoids would be something an inexperienced pilot would try to avoid, whilst an experienced on might go looking for trouble.

Today skipping the space lanes is somthing to save (real life) time, not something to look for trouble. If you trouble theese up, players will stay in the lane and slaughter freighters.

Pity nobody commented the fuel + time use idea so far... I'd love to get some feedback.

spara wrote:

Smivs' Thargoid magnet idea is also an interesting one. That's an incentive to stay on lane. Trips to hermits would become quite interesting though.

May require something like your Stations For Extra Planets distance modifier to prices, to increase the reward with the risk. A distant Rock hermit could have more goods available and be more grateful (pay more) for some goods as you are the first ship to come by that week.

ralph_hh wrote:

ity nobody commented the fuel + time use idea so far... I'd love to get some feedback.

I don't think making the ship's engines consume fuel in-system would be a viable answer. it's too big a change in the gameplay, and would have to affect NPCs as well. It starts to get very Frontier-ish, too.

ralph_hh wrote:

Time consumption would mean the other ships are moving equally fast. Effectively eliminating the Torus drive and introducing a Time Warp Something. By this you also close the loop hole that you can follow ships that burnt injector fuel to escape by simply using the Torus. (This way I hunted down the Constrictor) Contract delivery times and OXP missin times will have to account for the extra time needed.

This is what a TAF (Time Acceleration Factor - i.e. speed up the passage of time, not merely the ship) would do. It's a great idea, and would mean that slow ships would be playable. No more masslocks: you might get knocked out of accelerated time when you meet another ship, but if it isn't hostile, then just switch the TAF back on again: no more waiting for traffic! Unfortunately it's very tricky to program: the AI doesn't cope well with the acceleration, and neither does the collision detection.

ralph_hh wrote:

Today skipping the space lanes is somthing to save (real life) time, not something to look for trouble. If you trouble theese up, players will stay in the lane and slaughter freighters.

Pity nobody commented the fuel + time use idea so far... I'd love to get some feedback.

I think some type of cost for using a Torus drive is not unreasonable. The distances vary between systems (and can be modified by OXPs) so a simple xLY of fuel is probably a little simplistic, but could be a stating point to think from. Perhaps Torus driving could affect ship maintenance which is up for some changes in 1.82.

Like I said, why not just call Torus what it really is (a time saving device to prevent player boredom) and speed up the clock so there is no time advantage in using it?

Speeding up the clock only makes sense if the NPC ships are accelerated as well, otherwise the are effectively locked in space while you travel usind the "Tsdtppb" drive - and that answers the question why we call it Torus

Smivs wrote:

Like I said, why not just call Torus what it really is (a time saving device to prevent player boredom) and speed up the clock so there is no time advantage in using it?

But it's not just that.
I use it to chase down cargo pods/metal fragments that are traveling faster than my ship, even scooping them if I stop it just at the right time. So it would require some change to how it worked.

Venator Dha wrote:

Smivs wrote:

Like I said, why not just call Torus what it really is (a time saving device to prevent player boredom) and speed up the clock so there is no time advantage in using it?

But it's not just that.
I use it to chase down cargo pods/metal fragments that are traveling faster than my ship, even scooping them if I stop it just at the right time. So it would require some change to how it worked.

Agreed. As a time-saver it has a legitimate role in the game. What you describe is using it as an exploit, so yes, some changes might be needed. Quite simply is should not rely on mass-lock, but be un-available when there is anything in scanner range. Simples!

A more fundamental problem (or is it a feature? ) is that by skipping the lane (with torus or without it) there's not much danger difference between systems. This is something that can't be cured by limiting torus use, introducing TAF or speeding the clock. Only introducing some mechanic that makes it worth to stay on line rather than skip the lane will remedy it.

Smivs wrote:

Venator Dha wrote:

Smivs wrote:

Like I said, why not just call Torus what it really is (a time saving device to prevent player boredom) and speed up the clock so there is no time advantage in using it?

But it's not just that.
I use it to chase down cargo pods/metal fragments that are traveling faster than my ship, even scooping them if I stop it just at the right time. So it would require some change to how it worked.

Agreed. As a time-saver it has a legitimate role in the game. What you describe is using it as an exploit, so yes, some changes might be needed. Quite simply is should not rely on mass-lock, but be un-available when there is anything in scanner range. Simples!

One mans exploit is another valid in-game use
I personally don't view the Torus drive as a time-saving device (although it does do that). I don't worry too much that the AI ships haven't got it. I don't see this as a problem but can understand how others might.
I do think that out of lane travel should have some repercussions, which is why I have deep space pirates, but if another (better?) solution came up I'd be more than happy.

Emtpy space is not a feature, it is part of a reality that can not be changed without too much handwavium involved. Space IS huge and empty, to repeat myself. If you want to ensure some dangers in Anarchy systems, then populate the area around the coriolis station, do not spawn any Gal Cops in an Anarchy System even when s.o. shoots at the station, populate the withpoint surroundings. Then, if you like, you may take more heat on the lane, if not, well, you have the two locations you can not avoid.

If you like to add the historic Elite "feature" of enemies just appearing out of nowheare in front of your ship... Why not? Who says the wormhole exits always have to be at the withpoint? If a malfunction takes you to Thargoid Country, why shall one NPC not end just somewhere in that system from time to time? Create some mass lock, then blue bubbles appear and then let a group of 7 appear in front of you. Mabye your ships mass had that effect on space, time, gravity and --- the wormhole destination.


Too player centric? Hell, why not? The whole planet system is dark and unpopulated as long as you are not there. It's lighted up just because of the player. 7 whole galaxies are sleeping. So what? There is no real life with a million ships flying around the galaxy at a AI planned pattern with which you occasionally interfere accidentially.

ralph_hh wrote:

Emtpy space is not a feature, it is part of a reality that can not be changed without too much handwavium involved. Space IS huge and empty, to repeat myself.

If we go this route... Oolite space is really, really small and should be tremendously expanded to match reality .

ralph_hh wrote:

If you want to ensure some dangers in Anarchy systems, then populate the area around the coriolis station, do not spawn any Gal Cops in an Anarchy System even when s.o. shoots at the station, populate the withpoint surroundings. Then, if you like, you may take more heat on the lane, if not, well, you have the two locations you can not avoid.

Ambushes around witchpoint (not right at the witchpoint though) and lurkers outside Aegis / other points of interest sound like nice idea. Maybe it could work.

spara wrote:

Ambushes around witchpoint (not right at the witchpoint though) and lurkers outside Aegis / other points of interest sound like nice idea. Maybe it could work.

It could. This is probably one of the best solutions (along with the off-piste Thargoids )