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Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:26 am
by SteveKing
Norby wrote:
My suggestion:

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       +-- L1 Lobby --+-- Maintenance Area
       |              |
       |              +-- Storage Area
       |              |
       |              +-- Cargo Area
       |
Docks--+-- L2 Lobby --+-- Main Concourse A
       |              |
       |              +-- Main Concourse B
       |              |
       |              +-- Main Concourse C
       |
       +-- L3 Lobby --+-- Entertainment Area
       |              |
       |              +-- Physical Activities Area
       |              |
       |              +-- Intellectual Activities Area
       |
       +-- L4 GalCop Precint (without Lobby)
       |
       +-- Your ship (exit)
I tend to think that 'L1 Lobby' should be the 'Dock'. To my way of thinking, once you land, you can conceivably do anything that relates to your ship by passing through the 'Dock', eg, Maint, Cargo Offload/Onload (and storage), used spaceships, salvage for second-hand parts etc. The dock gives you access to the rest of the station lobbies via the lift/transport tube/conveyance device. Galcop Precinct should at least have a reception and a 'wait here - you will be seen shortly' or 'please take a number' message :roll: It doesn't have to go anywhere, but there might be an encounter while-u-wait :P

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                +-- Your Ship (exit)
                |
       +--    Docks --+-- Maintenance Area
       |              |
       |              +-- Storage Area
       |              |
       |              +-- Cargo Area
       |
       |--+-- L2 Lobby --+-- Main Concourse A
       |              |
       |              +-- Main Concourse B
       |              |
       |              +-- Main Concourse C
       |
       +-- L3 Lobby --+-- Entertainment Area
       |              |
       |              +-- Physical Activities Area
       |              |
       |              +-- Intellectual Activities Area
       |
       +-- L4 GalCop Precint (Reception) -- Galcop Office

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:20 am
by Norby
SteveKing wrote:
'L1 Lobby' should be the 'Dock'.
Good idea, in this way the top level menu of the advanced stations can be similar with the smallest, just contain two more lines for L2 and L3.

I think to put Storage behind Cargo based on the current description of Cargo area where droids transport packages from ships to the storage and back. This shorten the list in Docks with one.

Moreover can be direct access in subareas to other areas in the same level. For example all areas in L2 and L3 can show 3 ways: to the Docks and the other two areas. In L1 I suggest to connect all except the Storage.

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        +---- Cargo Area -- Storage Area
        |        | 
Docks Area -- Maintenance Area
  | | | |
  | | | +---- L2 Main Concourse (A, B, C) --+-- ...
  | | |
  | | +------ L3 Recreation (Ent., Phys., Int.) --+-- ...
  | |
  | +-------- L4 GalCop Precint (Reception)  -- Galcop Office
  |
  +---------- Your ship
Edit: better diagram without misleading connections between levels.
Edit2: Cargo Area is the first in the list in Docks.

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:20 pm
by SteveKing
@Norby - it looks like with your diagram that you can go straight from your ship to L2, L3 etc. What I was thinking is to access all areas (L2, L3 etc.) from the 'dock'. When you exit your ship, you can only go to the dock before you go anywhere else and can only return to your ship from the dock.

@BeetleB - I think Norby's simplification with the Storage Warehouse location (behind cargo handling) is a good one. As he says, the map of the smaller stations shouldn't be interrupted, you can just limit the options to one or two at each level, or block a level altogether. I think Galcop should be represented at all planetary (admin type) stations, but not necessarily for the private business things like Casinos, Superhub, tourist docks (run by the main planet), pirate cove (as you suggested) etc.

Certainly there is scope at this point to take it as far as you want, shady deals and bartering, homeless begging, plaza 'street' performances, pick pockets, birthday parties, crashing weddings, fined for drinking in public. As well as integration into an oxp like HOopy Casino. You seem to have a flair for the text adventure type logic. More fodder for the occasional Spacelane Tale :D

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:31 pm
by Norby
SteveKing wrote:
it looks like with your diagram that you can go straight from your ship to L2, L3 etc.
Not in my intention. From your ship you must go to the dock first (I edited to see it better). If you use the reverse direction then step back one before go forward to another level (and imagine the ship as a different level) because the direct connections exists between areas in the same level only.

The menu in Docks:

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Cargo Area
Maintenance Area
L2 Main Concourse (A, B, C)
L3 Recreation (Ent., Phys., Int.)
L4 GalCop Precint (Reception)
Back to your ship
I moved Cargo to the first place due to the alphabetical order looks better.

In Cargo area:

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Storage Area
Maintenance Area
Back to the Dock
In L2 Lobby (L3 is similar):

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Main Concourse A
Main Concourse B
Main Concourse C
Back to the Docks
In Main Concourse A:

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Main Concourse B
Main Concourse C
Back to L2 Lobby
In L4:

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Galcop Office
Back to the Docks

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:47 pm
by BeeTLe BeTHLeHeM
SteveKing wrote:
@BeetleB - I think Norby's simplification with the Storage Warehouse location (behind cargo handling) is a good one. As he says, the map of the smaller stations shouldn't be interrupted, you can just limit the options to one or two at each level, or block a level altogether. I think Galcop should be represented at all planetary (admin type) stations, but not necessarily for the private business things like Casinos, Superhub, tourist docks (run by the main planet), pirate cove (as you suggested) etc.
Yes, I think it's a good evolution since my initial concept. It makes sense that the Docks location works as a central Hub, since it's the first area every visitor must pass through. And I agree with all the rest too, I'll implement the new design for the next Sunday release.
For the smaller stations I was thinking about blocking entire levels, but it could be limited to single areas too: before deciding I'll post the actual list of planned locations inside the station with some info.

I agree for the extra-docking objects, this layout is a default for the vanilla stations after all. I'll write the code to access to different layout configurations, so I can define additional designs for different station types: only thing is how to identify the various types (mostly for the other OXPs). The idea is to associate a station distinctive property (allegiance?) to the Docks location internal label, so I can execute a check after docking to tell the OXPs which layout has to use.

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:34 am
by Norby
After reading back the messages I tuned the diagram:

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Docks Area -- Cargo Area ------ Storage Area
    | | +---- Main Concourse -- A
    | |               | | +---- B
    | |               | +------ C
    | |               +-------- ...
    | +------ GalCop Precint -- Galcop Office
    |                     +---- Jail
    +-------- Your ship
- no maintenance area for simplicity, a Cargo area is enough near the dock and maintenance activities can fit into this screen also,
- levels are not numbered to avoid confusion due to changes if a level is missing in a station,
- the main level contain all areas except Cargo and GalCop-related ones, this list will be long in high tech worlds but better if must not go back to the dock to reach an advanced area from a less advanced one,
- the jail is added as another place accessible from GalCop reception.
The result is pretty simple imho.

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:08 am
by SteveKing
@Norby (through to BeetleB),

I would add just the one complication from the nicely simplified map. It would seem strange that you couldn't go directly to Galcop from the main concourse (as the people who live and work on the station might have reason to). Going via the dock would seem odd. So keep the conections Dock-Concourse, Dock-Galcop and add Concourse-Galcop. After all, you must be able to 'Go to Jail, go directly to Jail, do not pass go, please pay 200Cr' :P

Talking about 'Jail' - so Wild West :) Perhaps in higher tech, could be 'Detainment Facility' :D

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:58 am
by Rorschachhamster
Just a random thought...
Maybe a randomisation of the layout? Is that possible? :wink:

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:26 am
by Norby
SteveKing wrote:
add Concourse-Galcop
I think if another level is accessible directly then reduce the feeling of a bigger movement and easy to mix up with a nearby area. The "Cargo" and "GalCop" are common words for a player so no problem to remind that these are in different levels and must go back to the dock to reach these. An extra step is slower but rewarded by a chance of an encounter and the list in main level is enough long already.
There are both pro and contra arguments imho so I leave the decision to BeetleB.
SteveKing wrote:
Go to Jail
There are two special places where more dangerous and awardable missions can be found: the Storage where bad guys likely hiding and Jail where there are visitable captured bad guys. These places should be a bit harder to access so are not connected to the dock directly. The GalCop reception can ask for a fee to enter into the Jail as a visitor - they predict that you maybe will get a work so raise hands for some credits without officially admit the connection.

A possible quest to earn contracts: an encounter in the main level give an info about a package number in the storage area as a meeting place of suspicious pilots. Then go to the Storage enough often to once meet somebody who tell about a friend in the Jail (sometimes in another station) who seek somebody to do something. After this you will not only give free credits to the GalCop anymore when you visit the Jail.

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:57 am
by Norby
Rorschachhamster wrote:
Maybe a randomisation of the layout?
Alleys in Rock Hermits and pirate stations can be true labyrinths, for example if you go back a level then arrive into another place than you comes from or even never go back to the dock until not found and payed for a leader. :)

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:33 pm
by Disembodied
Norby wrote:
Alleys in Rock Hermits and pirate stations can be true labyrinths, for example if you go back a level then arrive into another place than you comes from or even never go back to the dock until not found and payed for a leader. :)
"You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike." :)

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:49 pm
by Venator Dha
Disembodied wrote:
Norby wrote:
Alleys in Rock Hermits and pirate stations can be true labyrinths, for example if you go back a level then arrive into another place than you comes from or even never go back to the dock until not found and payed for a leader. :)
"You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike." :)
One for the pirate rock hermits, always stealing treasure them. :D

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:16 am
by BeeTLe BeTHLeHeM
SteveKing wrote:
I would add just the one complication from the nicely simplified map. It would seem strange that you couldn't go directly to Galcop from the main concourse (as the people who live and work on the station might have reason to). Going via the dock would seem odd.
Norby wrote:
I think if another level is accessible directly then reduce the feeling of a bigger movement and easy to mix up with a nearby area. The "Cargo" and "GalCop" are common words for a player so no problem to remind that these are in different levels and must go back to the dock to reach these. An extra step is slower but rewarded by a chance of an encounter and the list in main level is enough long already.
There are both pro and contra arguments imho so I leave the decision to BeetleB.
Personally, the only modification I would add to the simplified design it's the introduction of a transition location between the player ship and the Docks, that I define as Hangar. I need this location actually to manage some event check, at least for now. This means that the locations named Docks, Main Concourse and Recreation will became the level lobbies: they will work as the Lift spine that runs across the station structure, and will give access to the levels areas.

So the layout would be the following:

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[your ship] -- Hangar -- Docks -- Cargo Area -- Storage
                        (Lobby) 
                           |
                     Main Concourse --+-- A Sector
                        (Lobby)       +-- B Sector
                           |          +-- C Sector
                           |
                       Recreation --+-- Entertainment
                        (Lobby)     +-- Physical
                           |        +-- Intellectual
                           |
                     Galcop Precinct -- Galcop Office
This means the lobbies menus will have 5 items for navigation (except the Galcop Precinct with 4), level locations on top, other lobbies on bottom.
I agree with the Maintenance removal, even if introducing the Hangar nullifies the simplification - but I want to characterize Hangar in a different way, linked to the player rather than to the station.
Another thing: I've dropped the "Area" word for every location except Cargo Area (because "Cargo" it doesn't sound good), maybe I could try to cut the length of the Recreation level areas, because "Intellectual Activity" is horrible, really.
Norby wrote:
There are two special places where more dangerous and awardable missions can be found: the Storage where bad guys likely hiding and Jail where there are visitable captured bad guys. These places should be a bit harder to access so are not connected to the dock directly. The GalCop reception can ask for a fee to enter into the Jail as a visitor - they predict that you maybe will get a work so raise hands for some credits without officially admit the connection.
A possible quest to earn contracts: an encounter in the main level give an info about a package number in the storage area as a meeting place of suspicious pilots. Then go to the Storage enough often to once meet somebody who tell about a friend in the Jail (sometimes in another station) who seek somebody to do something. After this you will not only give free credits to the GalCop anymore when you visit the Jail.
That's an interesting idea. The player "stance" attribute hint to the player sympathies between the Law and the Crime (with a "dead" neutral zone around the 0 value). This attribute changes with player choices during random events or working specific tasks (e.g.: Galcop social services). I would do this: make the Storage and the Detainment areas closed as suggested, but requiring a fee or a specific legal stance (a matter of trust issues, basically). So:
- To enter the Storage area, player has to be sided with the criminals.
- To enter the Detainment, player has to be sided with Galcop.
I admit it seems a bit weird to enter the Detainment as a lawful character and pick a criminal mission, so probably I would introduce one item to fake a Galcop stance for a single access (and another to fake a criminal stance - and this could open additional plots, similar to the one Norby wrote).
Rorschachhamster wrote:
Just a random thought...
Maybe a randomisation of the layout? Is that possible?
When I started thinking about the station structure, I though also at the amount of randomization I could implement. But the main structure has to be fixed, to create a standard and make the players used to it so they can learn the routes.
So I thought: I could create an entry to the inner maze of passages and corridors, far from the main areas. A simple maze, random-generated at every access. And then: the player could find items. Or enemies. So weapons to fight enemies. And so on.
I think it can be done, as a self-contained entity. It requires a good amount of analysis since it has to be very-very-simple (weapons should have a single attribute, no inventory, player can bring one weapon, one protection item, one equipment item), and good amount of work.
Maybe in the future.

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:06 am
by Norby
BeeTLe BeTHLeHeM wrote:
a bit weird to enter the Detainment as a lawful character and pick a criminal mission
The visitors of Jail should not must be lawful, just pay a fee for the visit. If you implement a good side also then I suggest to gain more items in the Galcop office. I do not think to close out anybody from the office until his reputation is not very bad.

Re: [WIP] Life in the Frontier OXP

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:37 pm
by BeeTLe BeTHLeHeM
A little quick post with the new design, the special locations for ever station location, and my personal, huge list of notes about every special location (mostly still not included obviously), to show the bigger picture and the ideas I want to follow with development. It will be a lot of work.

You'll notice that the Storage location has been "promoted" to special location. I have commented the code for now, I'll reintroduce it when it will be functional (with mission generation).

NEW DESIGN:

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[your ship] -- Hangar -- Docks --- Cargo Area / STORAGE 
                        (Lobby) 
                           |
                     Main Concourse --+-- A Sector / PASSENGERS LOUNGE, (SHOPPING CENTER)
                        (Lobby)       +-- B Sector / MEDICAL CENTER, CHURCH OF THE COSMIC WANDERER, 
                           |                         YE OLDE BOOKSHOP
                           |          +-- C Sector / HYDROPONIC GARDENS
                           |
                   Recreation Bridge --+-- Delight Avenue / HOTEL, WILD WORLD VIRTUAL TOUR, MUSEUM
                        (Lobby)        +-- Olympian Square / FIT CENTER, (ZERO-G ARENA)
                           |           +-- Mecenate Court / ART GALLERY, OPERA HOUSE, CINEMA HALL
                           |
                     Galcop Precinct -- Galcop Facilities / DETAINMENT ZONE, BRIEFING ROOM, 
                                                            GALCOP TERMINALS, SOCIAL SERVICES, PILOT COURSE
(not-so-final) NOTES ABOUT SPECIAL LOCATIONS:

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STORAGE
	- Give mission: emergency cargo transport.
	- Give mission: smuggling run.
                     
PASSENGERS LOUNGE
	- Give mission: transport package (peculiar stuff not present in vanilla contracts)
	- Give mission: passengers tour (passenger requires visiting 2-4 system, docking and spending 1-2 hours before leaving. payment when docking on the last destination. waiting too much or too little before leaving can reduce payment).

(SHOPPING CENTER) - related to the random dungeon idea, for the future.
	- Player can buy equipment: weapon, armor, gadget. Very simple and linear.

MEDICAL CENTER
	- Player can pay to heal wounds or sickness.
	- Player can pay to get sober when drunk.
	- Give mission: transport medicines/pharmaceutical products/doc-droids.
	- Give mission: plague emergency (transport epidemiologic materials, tight deadline, chance of sickness +1/+3). 

CHURCH OF THE COSMIC WANDERER
	- Player can make an offer. Increase church reputation. Stance go towards neutral.
	- Player can work for the faith. Spends time. Increase church reputation. Bounty slightly decrease.
	- Player can pray. Spends time. Increase church reputation. Physical shape slightly decrease.
	- Give mission: transporting relics/devouts/pamphlets (only when church reputation is high enough: the mission tier is: pamphlets, devouts, relics)
	- Give mission: cosmic evangelism. Unique mission. Transport a high priest and a unique relic around the galaxy (to a high number of systems). Very high church reputation necessary. When completing this mission the player get a special recognition status across every church, and get some sort of special advantage (Still I don't know what).

YE OLDE BOOKSHOP
	- Player can sell ancient books.
	- Gives mission: transport books.
	- Gives mission: retrieve volume from another bookshop.
	- Gives mission: make book exchange with another bookshop or private seller.

HOTEL
	- Player can pay to spend time.
	- Player can meet contacts for low-profile missions.

WILD WORLD VIRTUAL TOUR
	- Payer can pay to spend time.
	- Give mission: transport endangered animal/plant.
	- Give mission: retrieve endangered animal/plant.

MUSEUM
	- Player can pay to spend time.
	- Give mission: transport museum exhibits (needs high social standing).
	- Give mission: retrieve museum exhibits (needs high social standing).

FIT CENTER
	- Player pay a monthly subscription.
	- Subscription allows for access to every fit center.
	- Player can exercise, gaining strength points for every session.
	- One session for docking. One day of "rest" between two sessions.
	- Strength start to slowly decrease after a week without exercise.

(ZERO-G ARENA) - needs analysis before confirming presence of location
	- Player with enough physical shape can participate to a game.
	- Victory brings a sum of money as reward.
	- Chance of wounds (light to severe).
	- Can bet on other matches?
	- Try to avoid abuses on gaining money.
	- Match present 3-4 actions with choices and random consequences. Maybe use some random general stat for the opponent.

ART GALLERY
	- Player can pay to spend time.
	- Give mission: transport artwork (common/uncommon/rare/unique depending on social standing).
	- Give mission: retrieve artwork (common/uncommon/rare/unique depending on social standing).

OPERA HOUSE
	- Player can pay to spend time.
	- Give mission: transport musical instruments.
	- Give mission: retrieve musical instruments.

CINEMA HALL
	- Player can pay to spend time.
	- Give mission: transport old movies (common/uncommon/rare/unique copies depending on social standing).
	- Give mission: retrieve old movies (common/uncommon/rare/unique copies depending on social standing).

BRIEFING ROOM
	- Give mission: agents extractions (take a passenger from a system and bring him to another system).
	- Give mission: transporting witness (same as above, basically)

DETAINMENT ZONE
	- Meeting with shady contacts who gives mission or gives location of contractor for mission.
	- Give mission: criminal? (kill, destroy, smuggle, theft)
	- If player bounty is too high there's a chance of arrest. Spend a lot of time (days). Decrease physical shape. Chance of increasing sickness.

GALCOP TERMINALS
	- Player can pay to clean criminal record.

SOCIAL SERVICES
	- Player can spend time. Bounty decrease. Stance go towards Galcop. Low chance of light wound.

PILOT COURSE    
	- Player need subscription badge (need money and clean criminal record).
	- One lesson for docking.
	- Every lesson gives Galcop points.
	- Reaching 100 Galcop points player become "Associated". Unlock Galcop missions. Stance go towards Galcop.