Oolite Bulletins

Jack Nova wrote:

I'm going to leap into the fray with my first post to this forum!

I've just received a new Raspberry Pi today and it's got 512Mb RAM. All the new Model B boards from 15th Oct 2012 have 512MB as standard.
Hopefully that solves the memory issue!
I certainly agree that getting it onto the R-Pi and into schools would be a wonderful idea.
If it's possible to squeeze Oolite into a Raspberry Pi I shall go straight off and build a mini Orac case for it

Hi Jack, I share your sentiments.

Alas though, I fear the task may be insurmountable. I think for this to happen it realistically needs the support of the Oolite developers. From what I have experienced so far it seems like they remain sceptical about whether or not the Raspberry Pi will actually amount to anything. I'm not pointing fingers but most people just give the Gaelic shrug when asked, quite seriously, about the feasibility of getting Oolite running on a Pi. Which I think is a terrible shame since it could bring in a lot of new blood and introduce a whole new generation of kids to the joys of the Elite universe.

Not only that David Braben himself is one of the co-founders of the Raspberry Pi foundation, so think how amazing it would be to have a modern version of a game he originally made running a computer that he helped to create.

For those of you who still remain sceptical, just go and watch this video (it explains everything);
Inspiring future generations with open hardware - the Raspberry Pi (the audio is out of sync, but you can easily follow it).
The video does have a few mentions of their current sales figures. The prediction is that by February 2013 (release + 12 months) about a million of them will have been shipped. It's a good video, I recommend giving it a watch even if you're only vaguely interested.

To put that into context;
Acorn Archimedes = 0.2 million
Atari ST = 0.55 million
ZX81 = 1.5 million
BBC Micro = 1.5 million
Commodore 64 = 12.5 million

So it's not quite C64 sales, but... release + 12 months a million units, it's not doing so bad

Davespice wrote:

Alas though, I fear the task may be insurmountable. I think for this to happen it realistically needs the support of the Oolite developers. From what I have experienced so far it seems like they remain sceptical about whether or not the Raspberry Pi will actually amount to anything. I'm not pointing fingers but most people just give the Gaelic shrug when asked, quite seriously, about the feasibility of getting Oolite running on a Pi.

To be fair, the Developers are a small handful of unpaid volunteers, with regular jobs, who are using their limited free time (often to the detriment of time with their families) to work on what is quite rightly their main priority, the next version of Oolite. It's not about scepticism of the RP's prospects. It's about making best use of their limited time. If there are coders out there currently not involved with the Oolite project who'd like to take the time to get to know the game internals and then take on the project of porting Oolite to the RP, that would be fine, (and I'm very sure you'd find the Devs quite supportive in that instance) but expecting the core dev team to drop what they're doing is asking a lot. A platform port is a lot of work. If you read some of the threads requesting ports to various platforms, you'll see the answer is always the same.. "Sure, it could probably be done.. but we're awful busy already.. if you want it, go ahead and do it. We'll do our best to answer your questions along the way."

Why not take it on yourself? You seem to have a head-start in regard to knowledge of RP internals.

Thanks for your reply Diziet Sma but I can’t help feeling that words are being put in my mouth. What I said was that I think this needs the support of the Oolite developers, which is not the same as saying that they must drop everything and do the work. That would be tremendously arrogant.

Perhaps I am venting a bit about the slightly discouraging responses I have been having so far but I am, in no way, saying what you imply above. I promise.

In fact, your reply is probably the most encouraging response I’ve had. I was actually having a look around the Oolite SVN on Friday as it happens. Maybe I will take it on myself.

Davespice wrote:

...I can’t help feeling that words are being put in my mouth. What I said was that I think this needs the support of the Oolite developers, which is not the same as saying that they must drop everything and do the work.

This sounds like different interpretations of the word 'support'. I'm sure everybody here (including the Devs) would like to see Oolite on the RPi, and that the Devs would support this move where they could. However that support would be more along the lines of giving help and advice where needed, not actually doing the work which they clearly don't have time for.

Davespice wrote:

In fact, your reply is probably the most encouraging response I’ve had. I was actually having a look around the Oolite SVN on Friday as it happens. Maybe I will take it on myself.

Give it a go. I'm sure you would get lots of good advice, help and even practical support from members of the commOonity.

Davespice wrote:

Thanks for your reply Diziet Sma but I can’t help feeling that words are being put in my mouth. What I said was that I think this needs the support of the Oolite developers, which is not the same as saying that they must drop everything and do the work. That would be tremendously arrogant.

Fair enough.. suffice to say that your frustration was bleeding through, and I misunderstood a little. My apologies.

Right. In light of the above, I think it's probably fair to say (now I'm putting words in the Dev's mouths.. ) that you would find the Devs pretty non-committal until such time as they see somebody actually committing to the task. If and when they see somebody making a firm effort to take the task on, you'd probably see them more forthcoming with specific information. Until then, it's just pie-in-the-sky, like so many other porting attempts have become.

Davespice wrote:

I was actually having a look around the Oolite SVN on Friday as it happens. Maybe I will take it on myself.

That would be absolutely awesome! There are a number of members here with RPs, and I'm sure they'd be willing to do whatever they may be able to, to assist as well.

Diziet Sma wrote:

... it's just Pi-in-the-sky

There... fixed that for you!

Can't believe I missed a chance for a pun!
<slaps own face vigorously>

Diziet Sma wrote:

Can't believe I missed a chance for a pun!
<slaps own face vigorously>

Wouldn't a custard Pi in the face have been better?

That's right.. rub it in..

<chortles>

The number Raspberry Pi related puns are actually unbelievable. Raspberry Jam, Pi bake off all sorts The Pi is supposed to refer to Python because they did toy with the idea of making the Pi boot directly into Python (like the BBC Micro did with Basic). But then you have to write your own mouse drivers and everything else so I am kind of glad they made it work with Linux.

I’m going through the SVN and it does look like everything is quite well separated out in terms of classes that do specific jobs. The Raspberry Pi does support SDL so that is one less headache too. I have already written some Open GL ES programs on the Pi where SDL is used only for control input but the Open GL ES is used for drawing, it looks like Oolite does this too (but with standard Open GL).

I am hoping therefore it is a case of porting mostly the graphics drawing code and allowing the rest of the game to remain unchanged. Memory requirement is the only problem after that, but I am thinking we might be able to lose some texture resolution or textures altogether and go down to shaded polys (where appropriate).

I am going to try and speak to Aegidian and ask him where in the SVN would be a good branch to pull and start working on. I think, initially, I might just create some cut down projects where all I’m doing is rendering a ship or a planet through gles and then start trying to put the game back together around it. We’ll see. Ideally it would be best to arrive at a situation where new builds of the main trunk could then be combined with the Raspberry Pi branch without too much trouble (i.e. new content and features but no or few changes to the graphics engine).

Diziet Sma wrote:

That would be absolutely awesome! There are a number of members here with RPs, and I'm sure they'd be willing to do whatever they may be able to, to assist as well.

What I could do is have some kind of public area where other Raspberry Pi owners can download the latest build to play test

Davespice wrote:

What I could do is have some kind of public area where other Raspberry Pi owners can download the latest build to play test

The development section already has sub-forums for Mac, Linux and Windows.. once your project is a going concern (as in, an active project, not a functional game), I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see a Raspberry Pi sub-forum.. <lobs big, good-natured hint at the Oolite Gods >

(And it may even be possible to enlist the services of the Nightly Build Server at some point, though how that machine works its magic is beyond my ken, so I may well be mistaken..)

Cool, that would certainly be helpful. I do have my own SVN if that helps.
Anyway I have been in touch with Aegidian, but all I got was a "good luck but you're on your own" type response. Which I can't complain about.
It might make things a little more difficult for me though, but we'll see. I am sure there are other developers on here who can help if necessary.

I'd interpret that as meaning that you'll be the only programmer actively working on it.. I can't exactly see the Devs refusing to answer questions.. so long as they're specific, at any rate..

Best of luck! In the meantime, I suggest you start a new, dedicated thread in the "Porting to other platforms" sub-forum.

Davespice wrote:

Cool, that would certainly be helpful. I do have my own SVN if that helps.
Anyway I have been in touch with Aegidian, but all I got was a "good luck but you're on your own" type response. Which I can't complain about.
It might make things a little more difficult for me though, but we'll see. I am sure there are other developers on here who can help if necessary.

Well, while Aegidian has expressed some initial interest in the Raspberry Pi, he is not an Oolite developer any longer, and hasn't been since his official retirement more than six years ago. So it seems you're rather late for asking him any Oolite-development-related questions.

Thus my question: wouldn't it make a lot more sense to contact one of the current developers?