Oolite Bulletins

The TAF wouldn't switch off automatically when other ships appear, is the only thing.

I think there was an OXP that switches off the TAF on condition yellow or red... or was it red only?

Zireael wrote:

I think there was an OXP that switches off the TAF on condition yellow or red... or was it red only?

Wyvern made one that's described on the wiki as setting the TAF to 1.0 on docking ... it might be possible to tweak, I don't know!

Disembodied wrote:

Zireael wrote:

I think there was an OXP that switches off the TAF on condition yellow or red... or was it red only?

Wyvern made one that's described on the wiki as setting the TAF to 1.0 on docking ... it might be possible to tweak, I don't know!

I found it:

TAF reset function kicks in when docked, Witching to a new system, and when Condition Red.

Quote from MilHUD release thread - it's built into the HUD.

Zireael wrote:

The TAF wouldn't switch off automatically when other ships appear, is the only thing.

I think there was an OXP that switches off the TAF on condition yellow or red... or was it red only?

'Twas MilHUD, and I think it was red only.

I just can't get my head around a TAF system. To me, it just feels like a fast-forward button on a dvd player, skipping the boring bits. The torus drive, on the other hand, doesn't.

I think whichever method is eventually chosen, there will be a whole bunch of people who think it's wrong and the other one is better. I'm firmly on the "Keep the torus drive" camp myself, but I'd be willing to reserve judgement until I've seen the TAF system in action.

Zireael wrote:

I found it:

TAF reset function kicks in when docked, Witching to a new system, and when Condition Red.

Quote from MilHUD release thread - it's built into the HUD.

Good stuff! Should be possible to give a TAF-only game a limited test, then.

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/MilSpec_HUD_OXP

(version 3.4).

Hmm ... I was just searching for information on the TAF (like how to turn it on – it's not something I've ever used) and I found this thread ... anyone know if the TAF is available in 1.75.2?

Disembodied wrote:

anyone know if the TAF is available in 1.75.2?

Indeed it is... I think it will be gone for 1.76, but I'm not sure.

SandJ wrote:

Because trophy WAGs want you for your money, but all the girls love a scarred space veteran.

Because money can buy grudging respect, but results earn it.

Because you can inherit, steal or find money, but you cannot buy your rating.

Because in the capitalist, unmeritocratic RealWorld, money is all that matters. In the Wild West escapism of Elite, it is what you have done that says who you are.

Because when you're old, broke, tired and shot up, you don't need money to be served a beer in a Seedy Space Bar ... provided you're Elite. (Suggestion: Elite pilots should get drinks "on the house" in SSBs)


Money should be a means to an end, not an end in itself. There is no glory in having lots of money. Being Elite is an honour system; money is immaterial.

And in the RealWorld I'm an overweight, middle-aged, unemployed bloke with no money. In Oolite I am a somebody who might just possibly become Elite some day.

Totally agree with you there. Money is not the goal, rather it is an enabler of the goal. Even when they can afford a rackfull of the best missiles on the market, there's some misers that'll sweat over the price.
Money allows buying a ship best suited for what you want to do, kitting it up, and the inevitable refuel, rearm, and repairs. And no doubt it's nice to have built up a big fat bank account, which beats being a dirt-poor Jameson any day.

The real goal is becoming a legend. Becoming Elite.

I'm Elite, and still Jeeves doesn't offer free beer. Oh well, the bar tab is pocket change.

El Viejo wrote:

Indeed it is... I think it will be gone for 1.76, but I'm not sure.

To clarify a bit:

TAF will be disabled only in the final, end-user distribution builds for 1.76, which are going to be a configuration different to what we currently have as test releases anyway. A lot of debug features will be disabled in this final end-user configuration, including debug console and Graphviz support and, of course, TAF - which was conceived as a debug and not a gameplay tool in the first place.

The test-release configurations of version 1.76 will be more or less what we have today, minus a few bugs that will hopefully be squashed by the time it goes gold. It will be possible to convert the end-user configuration installers to test-release configuration ones (at least on Windows) by running an updater/patcher program similar to the one we have now for updating the previous version installers to the current version ones. I believe similar tools will be available for the other ports too. The picture I have in my head is that v1.76 will be released as an end-user installer, with the patcher to test-release as a separate download, for those who would want to develop OXPs or hack the game or simply prefer the test-release configuration with its ability to open up the hood and see what's inside.

Disembodied wrote:

It would be possible(ish) to test this out just now, though: we could try flying different ships using just the TAF and not using the torus. The TAF wouldn't switch off automatically when other ships appear, is the only thing.

No, it’s not the only thing. My idea also involved slowing steering response proportionately – not as a punishment, but so it’s actually possible to steer at high factors. I think this will make a huge difference – it will feel a lot like torus drive, with the main difference being that other ships (which are off screen by definition) get the same amount of acceleration as you do.

another_commander wrote:

To clarify a bit:

Yep. (I was planning to call the “test release” variant of 1.76 the “developer version”; it’s called the test release configuration now because that’s what we’ve used it for so far.)

I don't know if this is really possible or not, but having a cockpit view option (As in actually seeing the interior of your ship's cockpit) would be a neat eye-candy update. I don't mind either way, of course, but it's something I like in other space trading games like Evochron and X2, so it'd be neat as an option in Oolite.

As for a functional update, I'd like Oolite 2.0 to have adjustable deadzone settings for joysticks and gamepads (In the event that it doesn't get implemented in 1.76, of course. )

Ahruman wrote:

Disembodied wrote:

It would be possible(ish) to test this out just now, though: we could try flying different ships using just the TAF and not using the torus. The TAF wouldn't switch off automatically when other ships appear, is the only thing.

No, it’s not the only thing. My idea also involved slowing steering response proportionately – not as a punishment, but so it’s actually possible to steer at high factors. I think this will make a huge difference – it will feel a lot like torus drive, with the main difference being that other ships (which are off screen by definition) get the same amount of acceleration as you do.

Interesting! I think I can see what that might be like. There's still the issue of slower player ships being caught from behind ... that might need a bit of fiddling: being overhauled (and bumped out of time acceleration) by faster inbound traders could be annoying.

Of course, if the player can elect to re-enter TA, even if there's another ship on the scanner, then that wouldn't matter so much. It would just be

1. Ship arrives on scanner
2. BUMP to TA factor 1
3. Scan ship
4. Ship is not hostile
5. Player pushes TA factor back up to 8x/16x/whatever (even though the other ship is still on the scanner)
6. New ship arrives on scanner
7. BUMP to TA factor 1
8. Scan ship
9. etc.

This, of course, could well be the plan all along ... in which case please ignore my previous reservations.

Disembodied wrote:

DaddyHoggy wrote:

Everybody talks about balancing ships, speed, cargo capacity, energy etc and it's all bollocks because the Torus drive is a player-only piece of magic that is a complete imbalance in a league of its own)

I'd say there's a difference between balancing ships in the game, and balancing the game experience for players versus NPCs ... we're the only ones who care, after all! I agree that there's a definite appeal in making things seem equal for players and NPCs: if players can have it/do it, then so, ideally, should NPCs. Obviously there are limits: NPCs don't have the capacity for boredom, for example. The torus (or – if it gets replaced – the TAF) is there purely because the player gets bored without it.

Changing the torus drive to a TAF, making players and NPCs equal in this respect, will make it a different game. The player will not be the fastest ship in the universe any more, making ship speed more important, especially for players flying slower ships. Ultimately I'm not sure that this change would make the game more fun – which is the only valid reason for making a change.

It would be possible(ish) to test this out just now, though: we could try flying different ships using just the TAF and not using the torus. The TAF wouldn't switch off automatically when other ships appear, is the only thing.

You're right speed would become important - so buying a slow, big hauler would be a genuine and conscious decision to buy said ship because at the moment it's not actually a decision, because you just pull out of the space lane and whack it on Torus drive, most people worry about pitch/roll/yaw values but not speed.

With no Torus drive escorts, would work the way I'd like to think the Ooniverse intended because there'd be nothing to masslock, no handwavium to explain paired engine energy waves etc, you'd all click on your hypnotic stardreamer and plod along in your python doing 0.2LM - the amount of real time expended would be the same because of TAF, but no magic Torus drive.

It would be "interesting" for the player to be caught by faster ships and that will change the dynamics of the game, but if there was an override so that the TAF auto disengaged at the equivalent of the masslock range, but if the new ship stayed white it could be re-engaged until the ship turned yellow/red when it would disengage again

It would seem Ahruman seems to have implied most of my issues/reservations/thumbs up for TAF have been considered and factored in - should have read the whole thread before responding to D's post!

DaddyHoggy wrote:

With no Torus drive escorts, would work the way I'd like to think the Ooniverse intended because there'd be nothing to masslock, no handwavium to explain paired engine energy waves etc, you'd all click on your hypnotic stardreamer and plod along in your python doing 0.2LM - the amount of real time expended would be the same because of TAF, but no magic Torus drive.

I'm increasingly converted, I have to say ... although I still don't like the Stardreamer technobabble. It seems ... I don't know, crude and invasive. Plus, after a long trip, you'd wake up covered in dust. You'd also have to just sit there: moving around would be impossible, as you'd never be able to balance.

I'd prefer a handwave more in keeping with Oolite, with all the wormholes and spacetime-bending. Maybe the torus system (not "drive") creates a bubble of slow time? So rather than your perception of time being slowed down, time itself is slowed down within the confines of your ship ... in fact, to avoid temporal pinch-points, earlier ship designs (and quite a few new ones too) tend to be convex in shape – basically to avoid odd corners of the ship running in different time-frames.