Vector Map

[PhantorGorth]

Spoken like the true constructive anarchist we know and love.

It looks like we're veering towards "old empire regions" then, I was going to sort out the somewhat pressing "now you see it now you don't" special route issues and maybe try out some names, then I think we'll come back to this in a days time when everyone has had a chance to throw their tennus pennath in.

I will modify my script as soon as I get home and post up a region and trade routeless map so you have something to compare it to if you think that will help.

[ClymAngus]

yeah I'll do the same and we canlook for annomilies.
Funnily enough I want this to work as much as you do.

[PhantorGorth]

I have fixed the code issue. The floor(...) function I used for the round on the y axis was there but I really required to floor(abs(...)) due to its behaviour with negatives. This meant that some routes it was rounding up rather than down and LEERA to LEUSAR was 7.2 instead of 6.8.

Here is the new version of G6 with the regions and trade routes removed for route analysis:

PG's GALAXY 6 (v9) Basic

[PhantorGorth]

Clym,

I have just checked out Bebidiso to Areis and you are right. That was never a basic route on my map to start with but unfortunately my code just draws the lines between them when plotting trade routes if told to.

The other route Soinisat to Onxequte now appears since my code fix. Leera now has a hub count of 17 like the wiki says.

[ClymAngus]

WooT, cool that's a fine tune that'll never need fixing again so the route stuff should be right now, whatever map it's applied to, shouldn't it ?

[PhantorGorth]

I can't think that there is anything else wrong.

What changes to the trade routes are you making?

[ClymAngus]

Well one ran through a non-existant route so looking at the map if we wanted to keep it the same length then it needed re-routing.

some of the other had a natral extention into other systems (nothing major)

and we needed a bloody dangerous but very high profit route, so we now have "Remlock Road" cutting through Cerberus.

[ClymAngus]

With that being uploaded tonight we're back to the nitty little problem of zone division and naming.

So if the debate has run the way I think it has then, we're caught in a bit of a culture clash/change over of old empire and new galcorp system here are't we?

The question is how do we define it in a fun but vague way? As society tends to be defined by it's industry (and as "Life after people" illistrates,
http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people if you remove all the high sentients your average earth like world becomes low agricultural again after about 200-500 years.)

Now my current map although a mix of groupings, and less encompassing than phantagorth's does subscribe to the rules that have governed the others eg: a galcentre, groups based on surplus - need basis, safety of transportation. Etc

BUT if your defining an OLD empire then you have a certain degree of movement. low agri might be "gone back to nature" ex-industrial. Also if the take over was less than pieceful, microbe or expansion of the "new" races. Then you may have war damage that would have speeded up the process.

It doesn't need a complex back story really.

I also need a colour that won't screw with the rest of the map. I was thinking a dark cyan.

[PhantorGorth]

The question is how do we define it in a fun but vague way? As society tends to be defined by it's industry (and as "Life after people" illistrates,
http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people if you remove all the high sentients your average earth like world becomes low agricultural again after about 200-500 years.)

I have seen that program but don't confuse the outcome of that program with low agriculture. With in a few years there would be onlys remnants of the previous agriculture. Agriculture is a technology like any other. That program only shows what is likely happen if you remove people from Earth altogether. Most people go into the countryside of your western nation (europe particularly) and think there are getting back to nature but usually most is the way it is due to thousands of years of being managed.

But that aside a world could in a few hundred years change from high to low agriculture change from industrial to agricultural or the other way.

I also need a colour that won't screw with the rest of the map. I was thinking a dark cyan.

Choose whatever colour that works. I know from playing around with your maps that you do your regions as solid colours. When I did mine I used transparent fills. For this Old Empire/New Order map I suggest you do the same so that you can see one on top of the other.

[PhantorGorth]

Well one ran through a non-existant route so looking at the map if we wanted to keep it the same length then it needed re-routing.

some of the other had a natral extention into other systems (nothing major)

and we needed a bloody dangerous but very high profit route, so we now have "Remlock Road" cutting through Cerberus.

May be we should just ask Nemoricus how to change it as it was his route to start with.

[ClymAngus]

The question is how do we define it in a fun but vague way? As society tends to be defined by it's industry (and as "Life after people" illistrates,
http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people if you remove all the high sentients your average earth like world becomes low agricultural again after about 200-500 years.)

I have seen that program but don't confuse the outcome of that program with low agriculture. With in a few years there would be onlys remnants of the previous agriculture. Agriculture is a technology like any other. That program only shows what is likely happen if you remove people from Earth altogether. Most people go into the countryside of your western nation (europe particularly) and think there are getting back to nature but usually most is the way it is due to thousands of years of being managed.

But that aside a world could in a few hundred years change from high to low agriculture change from industrial to agricultural or the other way.

True but green **** over industrial estates is the most visable
as we have seen in Zimbabwe there is a lot of agricultural land that will take hundreds of years to get to the kind of productive level that existed before mugabe took over.

That said, it all comes down to the "nature" of the fall of the old empire.

With a dead race, then you have more scope to include "gone native" systems in with the existing ones. With an invasion hypothasis then your more restrained to a "take over" of tech one.

You see what I'm getting at? It's the nature of the death and the span of time since it took place. Thoughts? Not about the idea, that's just the way it is (you can't fight the laws of entropy). more the time line of death and recolonisation IF we go with the old empire principle. Like I said, fine by me, but whatever we do it has to be plausable.

http://www.crimsonforge.co.uk/cloister/oomap_G6.pdf

Proposed alterations to the routes can be seen here.

[PhantorGorth]

That said, it all comes down to the "nature" of the fall of the old empire.

With a dead race, then you have more scope to include "gone native" systems in with the existing ones. With an invasion hypothasis then your more restrained to a "take over" of tech one.

You see what I'm getting at? It's the nature of the death and the span of time since it took place. Thoughts? Not about the idea, that's just the way it is (you can't fight the laws of entropy). more the time line of death and recolonisation IF we go with the old empire principle. Smile Like I said, fine by me, but whatever we do it has to be plausable.

I wasn't thinking dead race as after the race is gone all the worlds would turn back to seed. Then there would no particular reason for the clumping to remain. I am thinking the old order stagnates and collapses. Systems change they ways, mostly governments. GalCop eventually comes along and tries to pick the pieces and you get what we have now. This would be similar to the aftermath of the end of the western Roman Empire. No group disappears just reorganises after a period of some chaos.

Route change: you have two agricultural worlds after each other which isn't likely to be optimal. I suggest Mateus, Azara, Orbeen, Bebidiso to give alternate Agri/Indust with significant tech level differences each time.

[ClymAngus]

Hmm interesting, this will need a touch of studying.....

[Nemoricus]

Well one ran through a non-existant route so looking at the map if we wanted to keep it the same length then it needed re-routing.

some of the other had a natral extention into other systems (nothing major)

and we needed a bloody dangerous but very high profit route, so we now have "Remlock Road" cutting through Cerberus.

May be we should just ask Nemoricus how to change it as it was his route to start with.

I'll see what I can do, then.

EDIT: Some suggestions for modifying the yellow route.

The Ormadi-Xear connection looks like a mistake. It doesn't put you in the best position to go further along the route.

I suggest changing the Ormadi-Sodionbe connection to Omadi-Diusar-Sodionbe. It's more profitable and logical that way. You aren't going directly from one industrial system to another.

EDIT2: For the orange route this time.

Argean should go directly to Orteve, bypassing Anebi. Again, it's more profitable and logical this way.

[ClymAngus]

Implimented and upgraded. I also took a look at the yellow routes track through the RAONBE cluster. There are a couple of extra stop offs there which make the route quicker and more profitable. I went through RAONBE and ISCEGE then up to ORXETE but it could just as easily go though USBEUS instead, what do you think?

Oh PG, your upgrades have been put in too.

so with the "old empire" shall I do a loose map around all the industrials at the moment, would that be an acceptable way to go? I think I can do it.

I'll see what I can do, then.

EDIT: Some suggestions for modifying the yellow route.

The Ormadi-Xear connection looks like a mistake. It doesn't put you in the best position to go further along the route.

I suggest changing the Ormadi-Sodionbe connection to Omadi-Diusar-Sodionbe. It's more profitable and logical that way. You aren't going directly from one industrial system to another.

EDIT2: For the orange route this time.

Argean should go directly to Orteve, bypassing Anebi. Again, it's more profitable and logical this way.