Oolite Bulletins

cim wrote:

So the naval station will always be placed at planetary orbit position 89131914 when you enter the regional system, but that position's meaning will vary between regional systems: it will vary where it is relative to the sun, planet, witchpoint and main station. You could also put it at other more obscure named locations.

<grins> Sounds good, does that.

Is it just me or is this starting to look more and more like a GalNavy? Toned down, of course. I personally would like it to evolve into something else, something more subtle, even secret kind of thing. Like I feel it was shaping in the start of the thread.

So...

I would assume that patrolling navy ships are only seen in interstellar space. That's where the thargoids lurk anyway and patrols are to be expected. If navy ships are met in normal space, then there should be thargoids too. Sort of battle that has "leaked" out of witchspace. I would assume that bases are in interstellar space too. There could be navy offices in some GalCop stations that at some point would approach the player (after constrictor mission maybe) and reveal the location of the base and open up the navy missions for the player.

spara wrote:

I would assume that bases are in interstellar space too.

I suggested that before, my preference being in IS between zero-distance double systems.

Cody wrote:

spara wrote:

I would assume that bases are in interstellar space too.

I suggested that before, my preference being in IS between zero-distance double systems.

So you did. A good idea IMHO.

From the "canon" evidence:

1. The Constrictor is a next-generation heavy fighter that seriously outclasses the Asp in that role, and in many respects is better than the Viper Interceptor (which is produced and backed by some of the Cooperative's richest and highest-tech systems, and too much of an expense to maintain and run anywhere else). Of course, there's no evidence they're able to produce them in large numbers, but Birera is TL14, so that gives them scope to be at least making prototypes of that sort of ship.
2. Someone stole one of their prototypes and shot up ships across half of Chart 2 with it, and they had to put an offer out to a bunch of civilian pilots before it was finally neutralised.
3. They believe that they stand a decent chance of launching a successful assault on a Thargoid-held system. Or, at least, it's not too implausible a lie for Agent Blake to tell an experienced pilot about what information they're actually carrying that's of such interest to the Thargoids.
4. They can provide Naval Energy Units; furthermore they can provide clearance to repair and purchase said units to a civilian Commander. That suggests a reasonably close relationship with whichever branch of Galcop handles that, and presumably that clearance is not the sort of thing which is just given away.

For me, '2' and '3' are somewhat hard to reconcile. Something on the scale of the system militaries of a small number of allied systems, perhaps? Potentially quite a lot of firepower - to meet point 3 - but projecting that firepower across the charts for point 2 would require a lot of diplomacy for sending a battle fleet through other people's systems, and if they don't have any significant Chart 2 presence, 40,000 credits times however many ships they want to send for galdrives.

Perhaps they only need Zaeredre, Birera and Xeer, in that case, and perhaps a few nearby low-tech systems which contribute people more than money to the alliance. Those systems might have fairly extensive military presences ... but their diplomatic and logistical ability to project that power anywhere else except in pursuance of Galcop-coordinated actions against the Thargoids, or transfers between the systems carefully agreed with the intervening governments, might be secret ops (and hidden IS bases...) only.

Interesting thoughts - and point two has always been an enigma, of sorts.

Okay new idea then:

• 3 Navy bases in systems - Zaeredre (G5), Birera (G3) and Xeer (G1). These system could have a small-medium (random) naval presence in them.
• Hidden interstellar outposts. (Cody - Can you provide me an example of a zero-distance location? I think I know what you're on about, but not quite sure! )
• Rare encounters between Thargoids and HIMSN. These would mainly take place in interstellar space, and would mainly be small engagements. (Larger engagements and in-system engagements could be reserved for special missions.)

This would scale back the presence and involvement of HIMSN and stop it from becoming another Galactic Navy. Like spara suggested, they should not appear until after the Constrictor Hunt mission, or maybe not until after the Thargoid Plans mission. Maybe after completing this mission, the player is contacted by the HIMSN or Navy Intelligence and informed that they are eligible to perform other missions for the Navy, and this would then allow the player to approach the HIMSN bases (until this point they would be ordered to leave immediately).

Pleb wrote:

Cody - Can you provide me an example of a zero-distance location?

Tetiri/Orlaed in G5 is one example - distance between them is 0.0 ly. I'll PM you a link that lists them all (there aren't too many - eleven, I think).

Cody wrote:

Tetiri/Orlaed in G5 is one example - distance between them is 0.0 ly. I'll PM you a link that lists them all (there aren't too many).

Ah, that's okay I was on the right track then!

I'm going to implement cim's suggestion of the new javascript populator and re-write the script so it only populates the three systems with bases. Zaeredre should still be the main base, and the other two bases in the Birera and Xeer systems could be slightly smaller bases. They should be guarded but have a relatively low presence as so to go more undetected, and create the illusion of a secretive organisation. Interstellar encounters should be equally rare and low key.

Pleb, I feel that your new proposal puts the project on the right track again. Keep it up.

I've started work on rewriting the script last night. Basically the 3 bases will always exist, but the player will only be able to approach after completing Thargoid Plans, and then contacted by HIMSN. A small number of hidden bases will exist in between the zero distance systems, but it will be up to the player to discover these. There will be rare encounters in interstellar and ultra rare encounters in normal space. I will post something up when I've refined everything so it can be tested.

Pleb wrote:

* Hidden interstellar outposts.

I suggest to place one not so hidden interstellar outpost also into every galaxy to leave open the chance to meet the Navy for missions without forced gal.jumps.

These interstellar places can be barely mentioned in the documentation ("in the northeast quarter", "right side of the Great Rift") and refined inside the game as a reward for some service at the public Navy bases.

The chance of "misjump" (which is willful when the player wants a mission) can be increased in between these systems (maybe 20%?), more after mentioned to the player.

Some additional totally hidden or very rarely mentioned outposts is a good idea also.

I'm liking how this sounds.

Is the idea for the HIMSN to field significantly improved firepower over the GalCop/Gal Navy stuff? I love the Gal Navy OXP and I think it adds just the right amount of naval presence to the game and their ships are not all that hot. With the various Thargoid oxps I'm running, the Gal Navy doesn't always fare best in Thargoid battles. The Behemoths tend to get shredded.

So having the HIMSN as a secretive elite force would be a cool way to go. Imagine a destroyer class vessel (like a Behemoth but tougher) with a squadron of Constrictors as its escort.

Norby wrote:

I suggest to place one not so hidden interstellar outpost also into every galaxy to leave open the chance to meet the Navy for missions without forced gal.jumps.

These interstellar places can be barely mentioned in the documentation ("in the northeast quarter", "right side of the Great Rift") and refined inside the game as a reward for some service at the public Navy bases.

The chance of "misjump" (which is willful when the player wants a mission) can be increased in between these systems (maybe 20%?), more after mentioned to the player.

Some additional totally hidden or very rarely mentioned outposts is a good idea also.

The only thing is, after reading through and adsorbing the ideas mentioned in the posts above, I don't really fancy the idea of the HIMSN having a significant presence in the game. As cim pointed out I(and I had completely forgotten about until was mentioned), the HIMSN have to employ a civilian pilot to track the Constrictor across G2 because they obviously didn't have the resources to follow it. I don't think they should have a base in every galactic sector but they should have a number of these hidden bases, some which the player will stumble across by accident and some that may make appearences in missions.

Sendraks wrote:

I'm liking how this sounds.

Is the idea for the HIMSN to field significantly improved firepower over the GalCop/Gal Navy stuff? I love the Gal Navy OXP and I think it adds just the right amount of naval presence to the game and their ships are not all that hot. With the various Thargoid oxps I'm running, the Gal Navy doesn't always fare best in Thargoid battles. The Behemoths tend to get shredded.

So having the HIMSN as a secretive elite force would be a cool way to go. Imagine a destroyer class vessel (like a Behemoth but tougher) with a squadron of Constrictors as its escort.

Actually the point of this OXP is because a lot of people (myself included) think that the Galactic Navy has actually too much of a presence and tends to be deployed quite heavily. What I am more in favor of is a much more toned down and secretive organisation that the player infrequently stumbles across and is occasionally asked to perform tasks for. They have ships and resources, but the player should rarely encounter them outside of missions. I like the idea of maybe (much later on) including a mission that may involve a big battle (like a system invasion or an assault on a Thargoid base), but this should be a one off extravaganza and would require a lot of thought to make sure it goes smoothly and fits in nicely. The problem with the Galactic Navy OXP is it essentially turns Oolite into Star Wars... Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars but that's not what this game is all about! Also the size and power of the Galactic Navy is completely unrealistic and I would like to make the HIMSN a more realistic sized power.