Oolite Bulletins

Nephthys station's shipdata.plist includes a line:
"equivalent_tech_level" = 15; // top-end equipment available

...I think this is a bad idea.

Nevermind that only the "desperate" will use it, thanks to the line right above it:
"equipment_price_factor" = 1.20; // 20% above average

And that is because tech levels in game are actually 1 point higher than the value suggests. so "equivalent_tech_level" = 15; actually means a tech level of 16, and there's nearly nothing that requires that.

My main issue with these stations having a very high fixed tech level is how common these stations will be.
Any Rich Industrial or Rich Agricultural system that is not Communist and has a system tech level of at least 10 or more ...will have a Nephthy station.
This is a low bar to clear for someone who wants to buy equipment normally found only in very high tech systems.

Combine these stations with other station OXPs/OXZs, and a tech level 13-15 system will seem "busy" with all the stations there.
There are no station exclusion rules to limit the number of stations in 1 system.
Hathor, Nuit, and Nephthys stations can all be in a single system.
...Biosphere, Sothis, Superhub, Transhab, and Tori stations might be present as well!

Switeck wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:25 am

Nephthys station's shipdata.plist includes a line:
"equivalent_tech_level" = 15; // top-end equipment available

...I think this is a bad idea.

Nevermind that only the "desperate" will use it, thanks to the line right above it:
"equipment_price_factor" = 1.20; // 20% above average

And that is because tech levels in game are actually 1 point higher than the value suggests. so "equivalent_tech_level" = 15; actually means a tech level of 16, and there's nearly nothing that requires that.

My main issue with these stations having a very high fixed tech level is how common these stations will be.
Any Rich Industrial or Rich Agricultural system that is not Communist and has a system tech level of at least 10 or more ...will have a Nephthy station.
This is a low bar to clear for someone who wants to buy equipment normally found only in very high tech systems.

Combine these stations with other station OXPs/OXZs, and a tech level 13-15 system will seem "busy" with all the stations there.
There are no station exclusion rules to limit the number of stations in 1 system.
Hathor, Nuit, and Nephthys stations can all be in a single system.
...Biosphere, Sothis, Superhub, Transhab, and Tori stations might be present as well!

So...
1) the main difference between 14 (=TL15) & 15 (=TL16) as I understand it is the maintenance - it lasts longer. Mayhap one could have the longer lasting maintenance (well worth the extra 20%) without all the extra equipment? Or something like Weapon Laws which restricts the equipment on sale?
2) is it possible to have a random or psuedo-random tech_level for the station?
3) according to the Space Traders Flight Training Manual‎‎ (1984): Every world registered with the Galactic Co-operative has several Coriolis space stations in orbit at various altitudes... (p16) ... and in the early literature (Imprint, 1991): The complex was in the anterior of Station 3 orbiting Lave. Each Lavean Station had a perpetual stream of would-be pilots and, currently, a waiting-list for appointments. (p6)

Switeck wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:25 am

Nephthys station's shipdata.plist includes a line:
"equivalent_tech_level" = 15; // top-end equipment available

...I think this is a bad idea.

Nevermind that only the "desperate" will use it, thanks to the line right above it:
"equipment_price_factor" = 1.20; // 20% above average

And that is because tech levels in game are actually 1 point higher than the value suggests. so "equivalent_tech_level" = 15; actually means a tech level of 16, and there's nearly nothing that requires that.

My main issue with these stations having a very high fixed tech level is how common these stations will be.
Any Rich Industrial or Rich Agricultural system that is not Communist and has a system tech level of at least 10 or more ...will have a Nephthy station.
This is a low bar to clear for someone who wants to buy equipment normally found only in very high tech systems.

Combine these stations with other station OXPs/OXZs, and a tech level 13-15 system will seem "busy" with all the stations there.
There are no station exclusion rules to limit the number of stations in 1 system.
Hathor, Nuit, and Nephthys stations can all be in a single system.
...Biosphere, Sothis, Superhub, Transhab, and Tori stations might be present as well!

The techlevel is there for a reason, maintenance should last longer and 20 % up plus a minimum of 20K credits on your account before you even could enter the station should prevent a run for it. Some OXP's actually use 16 or even 17, but I do agree that it's not really relevant.

You are correct that a lot of stations could show up in some systems, but on the other hand, rich systems with only a GalCop station seems kind of unrealistic too, even for Oolite.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:31 am

Would there be sense in splitting off the Hathor/Nephthys posts from the Nuit ones into a new thread?

OR, alternatively, in renaming the thread to "Nuit, Hathor & Nephthys space stations"?

Reading a bit back, I think renaming the thread would be the best solution.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:54 am

2) is it possible to have a random or psuedo-random tech_level for the station?

Unfortunately, the techlevel in js is read-only. A work-around would be to assign several copies of the station with different levels, the same I did in SIRF.

montana05 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:32 am

The techlevel is there for a reason, maintenance should last longer and 20 % up plus a minimum of 20K credits on your account before you even could enter the station should prevent a run for it. Some OXP's actually use 16 or even 17, but I do agree that it's not really relevant.

You are correct that a lot of stations could show up in some systems, but on the other hand, rich systems with only a GalCop station seems kind of unrealistic too, even for Oolite.

There's a big difference between lots of stations in a rich system and only the main station and maybe one semi-hard-to-find rock hermit. I am suggesting station exclusions that mean either 1 OXP station appears or another one appears but not both. There is enough add-on stations to make regional differences -- such as certain stations that don't appear in some Galactic Charts.
...besides Galactic Chart 4, because it's already special.

So how about making it so Hathor, Nephthys, and Nuit stations cannot all appear together?

Switeck wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:51 pm

So how about making it so Hathor, Nephthys, and Nuit stations cannot all appear together?

You do have a point, how for example for starters Nephthys and Hathor will never appear together ? Nuit I need to think about it, do you have any suggestions how to limit the Nuit and the Nephthys together ?

montana05 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:57 pm

Switeck wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:51 pm

So how about making it so Hathor, Nephthys, and Nuit stations cannot all appear together?

You do have a point, how for example for starters Nephthys and Hathor will never appear together ? Nuit I need to think about it, do you have any suggestions how to limit the Nuit and the Nephthys together ?

Umm, I suspect that Spara will be eventually adding Sothis to the mix too!

Can we limit it to say three of the four? Is that code-able?


If we look at them, Hathor is for poorer traders - but does that necessarily mean poorer systems? Reading through Killer Wolf's text, it is not obvious to me. It seems to talk about traders buying food etc. But food is so cheap at the poor agriculturals, it does not seem to make sense. So could it be that the stations are based at the rich agriculturals instead to bring down the prices somewhat? And, of course, they have people with the dosh to afford the stations? Does this even make sense?

Nephthys & Sothis we are told are for the wealthy. Nuit is an earlier GalCop station designed to allow large liners to dock directly ... and also for the wealthy.

Proposal 1) So how about Hathor only in rich agri or wealthy mostly agri. And then for Sothis, Nuit & Nephthys only 1 or 2 out of the three possible stations depending on the extreme wealth of the system.

That to me makes sense (if my interpretation holds) and fits in with KW's descriptions.

Proposal 2) OR we can go for geography and difference. Have just one of Sothis, Nuit & Nephthys depending on geography - one in Galaxy One, another in Galaxies 2 & 3 etc.

Proposal 3) Or one around the Xexedi cluster, another around Tianve/pulsar region and the third somewhere else.

Proposal 4) Create a mega-station override oxp giving the above 3 options directly to the player (and configured by OXPConfig or Library).


What makes sense to you... and then, what appeals to you?


The links take you to the wiki pages with KW's original Purgatori web-site descriptions (and to Spara's description for SothisTC).


Which brings up the matter of how on earth do the stations end up where they are. Yes, we know that Superhubs come with engines attached... But are the stations built locally? Are they built at Vetitice and brought through witch tunnels to their present locations? And what about the increasing prevalence of pirates/Thargoids... how does this affect things?

The Hathor Station is not close to the main planet and therefore, for my believing, is secondary. However, I didn't touch this station yet because I am not sure what to do with the concept, maybe some alternation will be required.

To limit the appearance of the Nephthys Station I could add a minimum productivity for the system, this should eliminate some rich agricultural locations.

As per my recent POST over in the Screenshot thread there is the desire on the part of some Commanders (probably a small minority) to have lots of stations in a single system. To that end please consider making any such adjustments to station availability configurable via the Library OXZ. If that task is not possible or beyond the capabilities of the moment then one can always wait until spara gets around to adding these stations to Stations for Extra Planets. Their inclusion in Stations for Extra Planets would most likely simply add them in orbit around random additional planets in much the same way that all of the other stations in that OXZ are added. That is unless spara has something devious up his well cloaked sleeve.

Nite Owl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:31 am

As per my recent POST over in the Screenshot thread there is the desire on the part of some Commanders (probably a small minority) to have lots of stations in a single system. To that end please consider making any such adjustments to station availability configurable via the Library OXZ.

Personally, I like a number of available stations as well. Considering that all 3 (4 including the Sothis) stations are in separate packages, the easiest way for a player to limit the number would be just not to install 1 or 2 of them.

I've been terribly busy lately. The idea of SFEP was and is to conserve all or at least most of those beautiful stations that had become sort of obsolete. If there was a station floating around the board with a suitable license, I added it to the mix. KW stations did not have suitable licenses, so they were not included. This has now changed.

I see two options here.

1. If these stations are put to use as something else than main station replacements, I don't think they qualify as SFEP stations.
2. I can always create an optional set called "KW stations for SFEP" and let the player decide.

Anyways, I don't have time to do any kind of OXPing for a month or two, so we'll probably see where this thread boils down to.

spara wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:45 am

I've been terribly busy lately. The idea of SFEP was and is to conserve all or at least most of those beautiful stations that had become sort of obsolete. If there was a station floating around the board with a suitable license, I added it to the mix. KW stations did not have suitable licenses, so they were not included. This has now changed.

I see two options here.

1. If these stations are put to use as something else than main station replacements, I don't think they qualify as SFEP stations.
2. I can always create an optional set called "KW stations for SFEP" and let the player decide.

Anyways, I don't have time to do any kind of OXPing for a month or two, so we'll probably see where this thread boils down to.

I believe the Nuit and the Nephthys would fit to the SFEP stations. Nuit as a cargo hub, and I don't see any reason why there couldn't be another Nephthys on an extra planet, if possible with pretty much distance to the main planet.

spara wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:45 am

I've been terribly busy lately. The idea of SFEP was and is to conserve all or at least most of those beautiful stations that had become sort of obsolete. If there was a station floating around the board with a suitable license, I added it to the mix. KW stations did not have suitable licenses, so they were not included. This has now changed.

I see two options here.

1. If these stations are put to use as something else than main station replacements, I don't think they qualify as SFEP stations.
2. I can always create an optional set called "KW stations for SFEP" and let the player decide.

Anyways, I don't have time to do any kind of OXPing for a month or two, so we'll probably see where this thread boils down to.

I was only hoping that you would put up SothisTC and possibly Sothis on the Expansions Manager (since you were working with them). As independent stations (like SIRF or Superhub - not like Superhub for Extra Planets). I'd not thought of SFEP.

Hope you and yours are all right over there in Finland. I do not envy you your neighbour.

Included in the next release of Nuit Space Station, docked liners and bulk haulers. I still need to run some tests to see if I missed anything.