For information and discussion about Oolite.
https://bb.oolite.space/
Ahruman wrote:If I was going to try to fix the scale issue, I’d start by writing a new game.
here! here!Agreed.. like you said, we just need to stop comparing Oolite objects/weights/measurements to RL objects/weights/measurements..DaddyHoggy wrote:
I like my E(oo)lite just the way it is - it looks and feels right even if it isn't!
Ah, the "L.N.B.E? (Let's Not Bother Eh?) Solution" When there is an impasse. It is always worth stepping back and thinking honestly to yourself "does it REALLY matter? Or can we just forget about it?"Ahruman wrote:If I was going to try to fix the scale issue, I’d start by writing a new game.
Likewise, the physics are broken, too. Craft in space have a maximum acceleration, not a maximum speed. They may have a maximum safe speed through the upper reaches of an atmosphere, etc - but not a maximum speed generally.Cmdr James wrote:The thing is, elite is fundamentally broken, scalewise. If its fixed, then things like flight time need to be changed, and the whole gameplay is different.
I think it's been stated before that Oolite will never use Newtonian Physics.Kyle Aaron wrote:Likewise, the physics are broken, too. Craft in space have a maximum acceleration, not a maximum speed. They may have a maximum safe speed through the upper reaches of an atmosphere, etc - but not a maximum speed generally.Cmdr James wrote:The thing is, elite is fundamentally broken, scalewise. If its fixed, then things like flight time need to be changed, and the whole gameplay is different.
But fixing that would indeed be a real headache, we'd have to get into relative velocities - do you come out stationary with respect to the star, or the destination planet, or the destination station, all of which may mean that someone stationary with respect to the other three could never catch you, and...
Well speaking realistically, why not just hurl rocks at each other? It's a hell of a lot easier than trying to shoot lasers. If you want to screw up a ship cheaply and easily, blunt force trauma every time.ADCK wrote:I think it's been stated before that Oolite will never use Newtonian Physics.
As it's sticking as close as posible to the original Elite.
(IMO it's not fun anyway, see Frontier/FFE, combat was terrible)
The physics may *look* broken when compared to the physics around Earth where we live but I consider that to be due to the fact that the game happens in a different universe with different physics. Notice there is no "Earth" in the game at all. There are legends about "Old Earth" or "Terra" in the loreKyle Aaron wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:19 amLikewise, the physics are broken, too. Craft in space have a maximum acceleration, not a maximum speed. They may have a maximum safe speed through the upper reaches of an atmosphere, etc - but not a maximum speed generally.Cmdr James wrote:The thing is, elite is fundamentally broken, scalewise. If its fixed, then things like flight time need to be changed, and the whole gameplay is different.
This appeared just as I was editing the Realism page on the Wiki!CalebOfIronAssMiner wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:56 pm(I know the last post here is 12 years old but I wanted to add my view to the discussion as it looks to me nobody ever considered looking at the problem from this angle)
The physics may *look* broken when compared to the physics around Earth where we live but I consider that to be due to the fact that the game happens in a different universe with different physics. Notice there is no "Earth" in the game at all. There are legends about "Old Earth" or "Terra" in the loreKyle Aaron wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:19 amLikewise, the physics are broken, too. Craft in space have a maximum acceleration, not a maximum speed. They may have a maximum safe speed through the upper reaches of an atmosphere, etc - but not a maximum speed generally.Cmdr James wrote:The thing is, elite is fundamentally broken, scalewise. If its fixed, then things like flight time need to be changed, and the whole gameplay is different.
In my particular case I was always thinking that the Ooniverse (or Elite universe for that matter) space has a weird property that your spaceship experiences "friction against the empty space". That is why the engine has to run all the time and if you stop it, your ship stops as well. Also note that planets don't orbit the star and the station doesn't orbit the planet, they all are frozen by this weird "friction".
This looks completely preposterous in our space and time but could be completely normal and natural in a different dimension.
So I think comparing ooniverse to our Earth universe is not valid. We only know what physics our specific universe has. We don't know what physics other universes could have.
The only problem I would have is when the ooniverse physics rules contradicted themselves. Truth is there are plotholes in the game that are much harder to explain than the "broken physics". Like when playing the game as a miner, which means spending better part of a day in a single system, I noticed asteroids around the rock hermit I used as my base getting blasted into oblivion by the NPC traders and then magically getting restored when I hyperspace away and then back. Even if the time spent doing that is something like 1 hour or so (there are a few pairs of systems that
are literally on top of each other, even in Galaxy 1).
Or the minerals and alloys I mined staying in the markets for the whole day and then magically disappearing in the less than a hour I spent hyperspacing away and back.
A problem like 750 TC containers not actually fitting into Anaconda can be plausibly explained away by waving the hand and saying that "space is compressed into" the Anaconda so that the containers actually fit even though from the outside they look like they can't. We don't have to worry about the exact details how that handwavium actually works. I can maintain my suspension of disbelief by simply reminding to myself that ooniverse is distinct from my universe and has different physics.
On the other hand having the markets or asteroid fields behave differently when I spend some part of a hour in hyperspace versus when I don't is plain broken and also breaks my suspension of disbelief. Such broken behaviors need to be fixed.
The point here is that when someone makes a game, he is creating an universe and actually defining the physics for it. There is no need for the physics of the game universe to match our real universe. But the physics should be consistent to allow the player to reason about what is happening in the game world and make sensible conclusions (and eventually decisions).
I both essentially agree and would go further.CalebOfIronAssMiner wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:56 pmThe point here is that when someone makes a game, he is creating an universe and actually defining the physics for it. There is no need for the physics of the game universe to match our real universe
). I think many players conflate their perception of reality with reality itself (again: discuss ).This is true at least in terms of logical consistency; not in the sense of tidy agreement but rather in the sense of 'feeling' real. Avoiding contradictions where possible so that the player can 'feel' what isn't there. Paradoxes in real life are somewhat more navigable as our experiecnces of them are so much more visceral - not it couldn't happen, but rather it actually has happened, we're forced to deal with that on some fundamental level : reality says we were wrong (...well I never...)CalebOfIronAssMiner wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:56 pmBut the physics should be consistent to allow the player to reason about what is happening in the game world and make sensible conclusions (and eventually decisions)
I've read this before and it isn't quite true.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:35 pmRedspear adding Jane's Galactic Shipset (the first installment of his Rescaling Experiment
