Witchspace cloud analyzer?

Wiki pages · Post by **Thargoid** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:29 am

Surely if you want to know about OXP missions, just read their respective read-me files? That's what they're for...

pmw57 · Post by **pmw57** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:35 am

Thargoid wrote:
Surely if you want to know about OXP missions, just read their respective read-me files? That's what they're for...

Yes, that is done, and for some the readme files aren't there or are quiet about the matter.

This here is already further than most games people will venture.

For other OXPs the wiki is used to find out further information which in some cases is out of date or could use improving. I'm still waiting for my wiki account so that corrections can be made.

So, for others information is scavenged from this bulletin board, but still information is missing.

So, the OXP files themself are investigated and the information is interpreted from what occurs within.

I mean, come on!

Post by **Kaks** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:38 am

pmw57 wrote:
This reminds me. If there is no manner within the game itself to discover the solution, is the purpose then to force players to either give up, or go out and ask around about the solution?

This might really worry you, but the purpose was for you to figure it out all by yourself & get great satisfaction in doing so...

However, a lot of people seem to prefer plan B: google for it / ask on the boards... I suppose asking on the board isn't too bad. It is the friendliest board this side of Riedquat!

LittleBear · Post by **LittleBear** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:41 am

It would be faily easy to include a list (set out in play order) of all the missions with the Oolite Download. I'm not sure there'd be much point in getting the F4 key to display it, as you might as well just click on the document whilst playing. When I've got some time I could sketch out a list with the missions in the order in which they become available to a player who is playing through from a new commander.

pmw57 · Post by **pmw57** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:34 am

Kaks wrote:
pmw57 wrote:
This reminds me. If there is no manner within the game itself to discover the solution, is the purpose then to force players to either give up, or go out and ask around about the solution?
This might really worry you, but the purpose was for you to figure it out all by yourself & get great satisfaction in doing so...

PM me if you like, but a person who is new to the game, who has sold their ship for a cheaper one, the number of blind-chance events that the player will need to recognise to put together a solution, appear to have a very low chance of occurring.

I know that this mission is canon, but a player will need to know to acquire several pieces of equipment before a solution is even available to them.

Post by **Disembodied** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:40 am

Kaks wrote:
pmw57 wrote:
This reminds me. If there is no manner within the game itself to discover the solution, is the purpose then to force players to either give up, or go out and ask around about the solution?
This might really worry you, but the purpose was for you to figure it out all by yourself & get great satisfaction in doing so...

However, a lot of people seem to prefer plan B: google for it / ask on the boards... I suppose asking on the board isn't too bad. It is the friendliest board this side of Riedquat!

There is a point here, though. The original Elite was harsh, but people accepted it that way. Nowadays, [insert head-shaking remark about the younger generation here] ... maybe it would make more sense to include, at least for the Trumbles mission – which after all isn't much of a mission, more of an unfortunate accident – some clue in the manual, perhaps under sunskimming. Something like

"Although modern ships can survive for extended periods within a star's corona, pilots should be aware that prolonged exposure to high levels of heat and radiation will have a detrimental effect on any biological organisms on board. Regulation anti-radiation flightsuits must be worn at all times."

After all, the solution to the Trumble problem is hardly intuitive!

There could be further clues elsewhere as to the existence of other missions – something like

"All independent pilots, on achieving 256 kills, are liable for conscription by the Co-operative Police and/or Navy in times of civil or military emergency, and should hold themselves in readiness to serve should the need arise."

phonebook · Post by **phonebook** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:41 am

i know this is probably wrong to suggest, but why not have a look at the mission config files

very very wrong!!!

Post by **Disembodied** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:45 am

phonebook wrote:
i know this is probably wrong to suggest, but why not have a look at the mission config files

very very wrong!!!

The problem here is that this would break the illusion, as much as anything else. I think there is an argument for giving some hints, if not in-game then at least within the game materials.

pmw57 · Post by **pmw57** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am

phonebook wrote:
i know this is probably wrong to suggest, but why not have a look at the mission config files

very very wrong!!!

That would do no good as the only vaguely useful info there is that the customsounds has two types of sounds for them.

Bringing no prior or outside knowledge to this situation, consider how and where the in-game solution may be found.

Post by **Cmdr James** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:58 am

Well its a mission from the original elite and in those days you really were on your own, so I guess B&B thought it was possible to work out on your own.
I dont really like trumbles, I dont think they add anything to the game except a Start Trek joke, but I dont think they are that bad.

pmw57 · Post by **pmw57** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:03 pm

Cmdr James wrote:
Well its a mission from the original elite and in those days you really were on your own, so I guess B&B thought it was possible to work out on your own.
I dont really like trumbles, I dont think they add anything to the game except a Start Trek joke, but I dont think they are that bad.

Yes. Ian Bell does apologise about them too, in the Elite FAQ from 1999

The Trumbles mission was a somewhat prankful addition to the C64 version to add something new over the BBC version.
...
In hindsight, i should have decreased the breeding rate of unfed Trumbles so that maintaining a small population would not require quite so much [redacted]

Post by **Disembodied** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:23 pm

Elite was the world's first open-ended computer game. It's frankly a miracle that there was any room to tuck in code for in-jokes, so it's not surprising that one of them at least falls a bit flat.

If they're going to work properly in-game, as an inconvenience more than a potentially frustrating curse, then the core game needs to be updated – just as witchspace injectors and nova bombs were added. I don't see anything wrong with offering a (fairly expensive) de-infestation service at high-tech systems. Maybe there could be a 100% chance of killing the first one, a 90% chance of killing the second, an 80% chance of killing the third, etc. So if you're quick (or rich) you can get rid of them pretty easily. In-game text could offer clues to the DIY method:

"Engineers in protective suits move through your ship, bathing every nook and cranny with heat and radiation, filling the ship with tiny charred corpses and the stench of burnt hair. It hasn't done the internal paintwork any good but it seems to have brought the infestation under control."

If the DIY method produced a valuable reward of trumble pelts, then there might even be a reason for commanders choosing to buy them when they get the offer later on. And we could give Captain Hesperus an in-game incarnation!

Website · Post by **Cody** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:46 pm

Hi Disembodied.

I'm close to being a purist, but your ideas above make lot of sense.
Some people like the hard way of finding things out (me), others like to have clues or even a full "a la carte menu" charting their way for them. Hey-ho!

I will not even start to get involved in those issues. The beauty of Oolite is it's retention of the original premise... you're out there on your own!

Regards

Post by **Disembodied** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:20 pm

Well, there's purity and there's purity! I'm fairly purist myself – to a given value of "pure" ...

But the core game has already been modified, not least with the addition of witchspace fuel injectors. They're a definite improvement to the original game, entirely in keeping (IMO) with the mood and atmosphere and overall rationale. There's always Strict play for those that want hardcore and nothing but the hardcore. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a little final polish to the original now and then!

JensAyton · Post by **JensAyton** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:39 pm

Disembodied wrote:
Kaks wrote:
pmw57 wrote:
This reminds me. If there is no manner within the game itself to discover the solution, is the purpose then to force players to either give up, or go out and ask around about the solution?
This might really worry you, but the purpose was for you to figure it out all by yourself & get great satisfaction in doing so...

However, a lot of people seem to prefer plan B: google for it / ask on the boards... I suppose asking on the board isn't too bad. It is the friendliest board this side of Riedquat!
There is a point here, though. The original Elite was harsh, but people accepted it that way. Nowadays, [insert head-shaking remark about the younger generation here] ...

Part of the reason for this change in behaviour is that there is an alternative to working it out for yourself. This is why, for instance, the new version of Monkey Island has built-in hints: it’s better than people googling up a walkthrough.