Oolite Bulletins

Posted: **Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:13 pm**

I've been meaning to change the market slightly for TL 14-16 systems, unreachable systems (Oresrati GC8), and possibly very low TL as well.
Wouldn't be too hard to add or reduce how much they have for sale. Changing prices would probably interfere with more other OXZs.

Posted: **Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:47 pm**

Bug report, or perhaps "edge case resilience" suggestion. My Latest.log complained of line 33 and 31 in market_restore.js from this OXP. It was attempting to set the quantity of alloys to a value larger than 127 (which is out of range for the setMarketQuantity function, triggering the line 33 error) and subsequently complained that the market was undefined (line 31 error).

It appears line 42 has incorrect capitalization, shipWillEnterWitchSpace instead of Witchspace.

It also seems that the capacity attribute of a market definition is not always present when retrieving the ship (station) market property in OOJS. When omitted, the mainStation capacity is used.

Therefore, I revised the code, as follows (second function included for fixed capitalization):

Code: Select all

//restore market when station is spawned
this.shipSpawned = function(ship) {
	if (ship.isStation) {
		var index = this.$primaryRoles.indexOf(ship.primaryRole);
		if (index !== -1) {
			var commodities = ["food","textiles","liquor_wines","furs","medicine","luxuries","alloys","machinery","computers","water","oxygen","minerals","radioactives","gold","platinum","gem_stones","alien_items","slaves","narcotics","firearms"];		
			var market = this.$markets.splice(index, 1)[0];
			var i, commodity;
			for (i = 0; i < market.length; i++) {
				commodity = commodities[i];
				if (ship.market[commodity] === undefined) {
					log(this.name, ship.name + " has undefined market entry for commodity " + commodity + ": SW Economy will skip");
					continue;
				} else if (ship.market[commodity].capacity === undefined) {
					log(this.name, ship.name + " has undefined capacity for commodity " + commodity + ": SW Economy will use " + system.mainStation.market[commodity].capacity + " as limit");
					ship.setMarketQuantity(commodity, Math.min(system.mainStation.market[commodity].capacity, market[i][0]));
				} else {
					ship.setMarketQuantity(commodity, Math.min(ship.market[commodity].capacity, market[i][0]));
				}
				ship.setMarketPrice(commodity, market[i][1]);
			}
			this.$primaryRoles.splice(index, 1);
		}
	}
}

//wipe everything when leaving system
this.shipWillEnterWitchspace = function() {
	this.$primaryRoles = new Array();
	this.$markets = new Array();
	delete this.shipSpawned;
}

This seems to have solved the problem. An Octahedron Outpost and Super Hub I in my current system are reported to have undefined capacity.

Posted: **Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:41 am**

Just wondering if this would be useful for marking out mining systems: World script event handlers: chartHightlightModeChanged

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:09 am**

phkb wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:53 pm
Here's something I prepared earlier.
SWEconomy_3.9.oxz

I don't have scope to properly test this at the moment, but maybe it will work first try? Worth a shot, anyway.

So, this is a re-work of SW Economy so that it uses the new Market Script Interface OXP. I also put all the customisations into Library Config, so you can tweak it from there. Note, though, that if you tweak settings that would apply to the current system, you won't see the impact until the system is regenerated (ie jump out and then back).

The final tweak was for mining worlds. They should have a bump in prices for agricultural products. As well, I've added an indicator to the chart screens so its now possible to quickly see which systems are mining worlds. This does nothing in the vanilla game, because no systems mean Stranger's criteria for a mining world (TL < 4, planet radius < 54250), at least in chart 1. I suppose one of his other OXP's must tweak the planet sizes.

As I said, I haven't fully tested this, as I'd need to set up an environment with a SW config, and I don't really have time for that. But hopefully everything will work first time. Let me know if it goes OK. I do have Stranger's permission to update this in the DM if we're comfortable with the changes.

Finally started playing again! I've yet to tweak SW Economy. But at first blush:

1) Ararus has TL4 and is "extremely agricultural" but its radius (6221km) should mean it has an agricultural economy and it usually produces furs et al.
Not now! It's just like the older version SWEconomy - low prices for food/furs etc but none of those goods for sale - and oodles of minerals and radioactives for sale instead.

2) Ararus's Rock Hermit has virtually nothing for sale (usually has lots!) - just 3TC of highly priced radioactives and some Quirium Crystal.

3) Peculiar effects on the station markets at Ensoreus (Nuit, SothisTC, Superhub, Nephthys) - some had very low prices for gold (30₢/kg) and/or furs (20₢/TC) and/or food and/or textiles and/or computers (20₢/TC)...

My current OXP cocktail recipe includes Smugglers (+ addenda, and currently not affecting either Ensoreus or Ararus), Risky Business (with cim's Risk-based Economy enabled), the various market-tweaked stations (Nuit, SothisTC, Nephthys) and Spara's "Ye Olde Hermits".

Question: is there any way to get Oolite to display how it calculates the markets?

Anyway, I'll do some more playing and report back when I've visited a proper mining world.

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:02 am**

OK, so there are some bugs, in strangers original and my update.

1. The mining worlds, in strangers original and in my updated version, are defined as having techlevel < 4 and planet radius < 54250. However, *all* systems have a radius < 54250. I think this should have been 5425.
2. My calc to bump mining goods in mining worlds wasn't having as much of an impact as it should because of a similar error in the calc.
3. My code to add "(M)" to mining worlds wasn't working because of a bug. But it's probably just as well, as it would have ended up flagging all TL<4 systems as mining.

I'm going to run some tests today to see what impact the fixes above have.

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:17 am**

OK, it's slightly confusing.

In the current system, if you check the radius of the main planet, it returns something like 41160 km (using Lave as the example here). However, if you use something like this:

Code: Select all

System.infoForSystem(galaxyNumber, system.ID).radius

you'll get 4116. And 4116 km is what you see on the F7 System Data screen.

I don't think this changes the fixes I'm applying, but it's worth understanding where my bug came from, and why it would be different in strangers original (he was always checking the system.mainPlanet.radius).

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:19 am**

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:02 am
OK, so there are some bugs, in strangers original and my update.

1. The mining worlds, in strangers original and in my updated version, are defined as having techlevel < 4 and planet radius < 54250. However, *all* systems have a radius < 54250. I think this should have been 5425.
2. My calc to bump mining goods in mining worlds wasn't having as much of an impact as it should because of a similar error in the calc.
3. My code to add "(M)" to mining worlds wasn't working because of a bug. But it's probably just as well, as it would have ended up flagging all TL<4 systems as mining.

I'm going to run some tests today to see what impact the fixes above have.

Stranger's original does distinguish between more and less than 5425 (or some such). G1 Ararus has an agricultural economy, selling furs et al. G2 Laenin does not.

I've not yet tested your tweak on Laenin.

And Stranger's Habitable planets changes the radii. (I think it's that OXP, rather than another of his suite).

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:26 am**

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:19 am
Stranger's original does distinguish between more and less than 5425 (or some such). G1 Ararus has an agricultural economy, selling furs et al. G2 Laenin does not.

SW Economy (original) was only ever looking at the current system. Thus it was using the larger number,

My tweaked version is using System.infoForSystem, so I needed to use the smaller number. So, the bug was just in mine.

I'm doing some tests at the moment. Here's what I get in Laenin (main station):

Code: Select all

Food         price: 6.8 ₢,  qty: 14
Textiles     price: 16.0 ₢, qty: 8
Furs         price: 57.3 ₢, qty: 16
Liquor/Wines price: 24.8 ₢, qty: 12
Minerals     price: 9.1 ₢,  qty: 83
Radioactives price: 14.7 ₢, qty: 34
Gold         price: 33.2 ₢, qty: 13
Platinum     price: 56.3 ₢, qty: 24
Gem-Stones   price: 15.0 ₢, qty: 8

And here's the main station at Ararus:

Code: Select all

Food         price: 9.0 ₢,  qty: 39
Textiles     price: 13.9 ₢, qty: 18
Furs         price: 53.8 ₢, qty: 38
Liquor/Wines price: 21.9 ₢, qty: 19
Minerals     price: 10.8 ₢, qty: 65
Radioactives price: 19.6 ₢, qty: 27
Gold         price: 37.9 ₢, qty: 12
Platinum     price: 69.0 ₢, qty: 11
Gem-Stones   price: 16.3 ₢, qty: 5

Does that look any better?

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:55 am**

Actually, on reflection, I think the mining world farming good should be reduced a lot more, and the prices for them should be increased a bit more. I'll have a play with some tweaks.

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:02 am**

Here's Laenin after some tweaks:

Code: Select all

Food         price: 7.9 ₢,  qty: 10
Textiles     price: 16.2 ₢, qty: 5
Furs         price: 65.1 ₢, qty: 9
Liquor/Wines price: 24.4 ₢, qty: 5
Minerals     price: 8.9 ₢,  qty: 81
Radioactives price: 16.3 ₢, qty: 33
Gold         price: 32.8 ₢, qty: 13
Platinum     price: 59.3 ₢, qty: 26
Gem-Stones   price: 17.2 ₢, qty: 17

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:15 am**

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:26 am
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:19 am
Stranger's original does distinguish between more and less than 5425 (or some such). G1 Ararus has an agricultural economy, selling furs et al. G2 Laenin does not.
SW Economy (original) was only ever looking at the current system. Thus it was using the larger number,

My tweaked version is using System.infoForSystem, so I needed to use the smaller number. So, the bug was just in mine.

I'm doing some tests at the moment. Here's what I get in Laenin (main station):
Code: Select all
Food         price: 6.8 ₢,  qty: 14
Textiles     price: 16.0 ₢, qty: 8
Furs         price: 57.3 ₢, qty: 16
Liquor/Wines price: 24.8 ₢, qty: 12
Minerals     price: 9.1 ₢,  qty: 83
Radioactives price: 14.7 ₢, qty: 34
Gold         price: 33.2 ₢, qty: 13
Platinum     price: 56.3 ₢, qty: 24
Gem-Stones   price: 15.0 ₢, qty: 8
Does that look any better?

Ummm...

just off the top of my head,

in my antiquarian (Stranger's original) version of SWEconomy, Laenin's prices for agricultural Food, Textiles, Furs, Liquor/Wines & Medicine are really low. But there are none of them - zippity doo-dah - for sale. Just minerals et al.

Stranger succeeded with the market quantities. But failed with the prices. What Stranger was trying to achieve was high prices for food/textiles/liquor/wines/medicine as they could not be sourced locally and need to be imported.

His SWEconomy managed to produce the right quantities (zero) but the wrong prices (far too low) for these mining worlds.

Why does this matter?

Well. Stranger is into his astronomy. Laenin has too small a radius to have the gravity to have an atmosphere capable of growing plants/rearing animals. And. Laenin's wealth (poor agri) & TL (4) is too low to allow technology (eg. hydroponics/terraforming/etc.) to remedy this. (See his essay on Habitable Planets: Can a planet with a radius of a pathetically tiny 3000 km possibly be an advanced agriculture world with a population of billions of residents? Definitely no way! Such a planet is far too small to maintain a dense and warm atmosphere. If it were located in the habitable zone of a solar system, then that small planet would have an extremely rarefied atmosphere with an atmospheric pressure of a few millibars - or less! ...).

So the only resources the planet has to offer are mining commodities.

So Laenin needs food. And textiles. And wine/liquors. And medicine. (And from industrial worlds, also machinery, and possibly alloys et al). The idea is that Laenin is no longer an agricultural world but is now a "mining world" (the third trading pole vis-a-vis the agris and the industs - and they each produce goods which Laenin will pay well for).

I'm sorry. I seem to be doing an utterly lousy job of explaining what SWEconomy is supposed to do.

Basically.
1) Agri worlds sell food to Mining worlds.
2) Mining worlds sell raw materials to Industrial worlds.
3) Industrial worlds sell machinery et al to Agri worlds.

SWEconomy is broken because Stranger was unable to create high food prices for his "mining worlds". Consequently, there is no profit in selling food to mining worlds. This is because mining world prices are identical to agri worlds. Stranger has not found a way to fix this and change the mining world prices.

The entire matter is further complicated because he had no way to label his "mining worlds "as such. They are labelled as poor agri worlds because Oolite does not seem to allow labelling them as mining worlds instead. If one knows what Stranger is up to, then one knows that small radii poor agris with low TL are mining worlds. And one expects markets to match - which they don't exactly (thanks to the low food prices).

Does that make it all any clearer?

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:30 am**

Got it: Mining worlds should have low farming quantities, but high prices.

Previously you mentioned that one problem with SW Economy was that there were zero commodities of farming goods available, and I put a tweak together that reduced them instead. Can I assume that you would prefer the quantity of farming goods to be zero if the prices can be increased?

Re: Ensoreus
I've run my checks through, and for Extreme Industrial (which covers Ensoreus) I get these stats:

Code: Select all

commodity       price min   price avr   price max   qty min  qty avr qty max availability
food            15.1        16.9        18.4        0        0       0       0.00%
textiles        23.9        25.2        26.6        0        0       0       0.00%
liquor_wines    35.1        37.2        39.6        0        0       0       0.00%
furs            71.9        82.4        94.2        0        0       0       0.00%
medicine        72.7        80.1        87.6        1        0       2       10.00%
luxuries        58.3        62.6        70.1        11       17      28      100.00%
alloys          33.2        38.3        43.3        19       36      56      100.00%
machinery       39.6        41.9        44.3        43       60      87      100.00%
computers       57.3        62.4        68.8        19       26      37      100.00%
water           8.7         9.0         9.2         38       41      45      100.00%
oxygen          17.5        18.0        18.6        14       19      29      100.00%
minerals        12.7        13.2        13.6        49       53      58      100.00%
radioactives    26.7        28.9        30.9        3        5       8       100.00%
gold            38.1        42.5        45.8        2        4       8       100.00%
platinum        68.8        74.9        81.7        1        6       19      73.30%
gem_stones      19.0        21.4        23.6        1        4       9       100.00%
alien_items     73.3        74.9        77.3        0        0       0       0.00%
slaves          46.3        63.2        79.4        1        0       4       6.70%
narcotics       11.0        44.3        86.9        17       4       41      13.30%
firearms        46.4        52.4        57.1        13       8       127     10.00%

Not sure what influenced Ensoreus' market in your game to get a value so low for gold.

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:23 am**

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:30 am

Got it: Mining worlds should have low farming quantities, but high prices.

Previously you mentioned that one problem with SW Economy was that there were zero commodities of farming goods available, and I put a tweak together that reduced them instead. Can I assume that you would prefer the quantity of farming goods to be zero if the prices can be increased?

Re: Ensoreus
I've run my checks through, and for Extreme Industrial (which covers Ensoreus) I get these stats:

Code: Select all

commodity       price min   price avr   price max   qty min  qty avr qty max availability
food            15.1        16.9        18.4        0        0       0       0.00%
textiles        23.9        25.2        26.6        0        0       0       0.00%
liquor_wines    35.1        37.2        39.6        0        0       0       0.00%
furs            71.9        82.4        94.2        0        0       0       0.00%
medicine        72.7        80.1        87.6        1        0       2       10.00%
luxuries        58.3        62.6        70.1        11       17      28      100.00%
alloys          33.2        38.3        43.3        19       36      56      100.00%
machinery       39.6        41.9        44.3        43       60      87      100.00%
computers       57.3        62.4        68.8        19       26      37      100.00%
water           8.7         9.0         9.2         38       41      45      100.00%
oxygen          17.5        18.0        18.6        14       19      29      100.00%
minerals        12.7        13.2        13.6        49       53      58      100.00%
radioactives    26.7        28.9        30.9        3        5       8       100.00%
gold            38.1        42.5        45.8        2        4       8       100.00%
platinum        68.8        74.9        81.7        1        6       19      73.30%
gem_stones      19.0        21.4        23.6        1        4       9       100.00%
alien_items     73.3        74.9        77.3        0        0       0       0.00%
slaves          46.3        63.2        79.4        1        0       4       6.70%
narcotics       11.0        44.3        86.9        17       4       41      13.30%
firearms        46.4        52.4        57.1        13       8       127     10.00%

Not sure what influenced Ensoreus' market in your game to get a value so low for gold.

1) Mining worlds should have zero farming quantities. No atmosphere -> no farms (unless they have wealth or technology, but then they defined out of being "mining worlds" and back to being "Agricultural worlds" by SW Economy).

2) My Ensorean Gold prices:
Main Orbital Station (& Superhub) - 40.9₢
Nuit Station - 29.6₢
Sothis TC Station - 30.4₢
Nephthys Station - 32.7₢
Visiting Liner Market - 46.0₢

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:38 am**

OK, here's how mining systems look across chart 1 after some tweaking:

Code: Select all

Mining systems                        
commodity     price min  price avr  price max  qty min  qty avr  qty max  availability
food          12.0       14.4       18.2       0        0        0        0.00%
textiles      25.0       28.5       31.4       0        0        0        0.00%
liquor_wines  38.1       43.3       48.2       0        0        0        0.00%
furs          67.2       81.5       94.7       0        0        0        0.00%
medicine      43.6       50.5       55.7       0        0        0        0.00%
luxuries      85.7       92.8       99.3       0        0        0        0.00%
alloys        38.8       41.8       46.4       0        0        0        0.00%
machinery     64.5       67.9       71.4       0        0        0        0.00%
computers     88.6       98.8       107.0      0        0        0        0.00%
water         2.8        3.3        4.0        61       68       74       100.00%
oxygen        11.5       12.2       13.0       0        0        0        0.00%
minerals      8.8        9.6        10.3       67       76       87       100.00%
radioactives  14.8       17.6       19.2       24       29       34       100.00%
gold          29.7       34.6       38.0       10       13       17       100.00%
platinum      53.4       61.6       68.7       12       24       40       100.00%
gem_stones    13.7       16.7       19.9       4        8        11       100.00%
alien_items   23.8       28.2       34.2       0        0        0        0.00%
slaves        1.4        22.0       41.9       10       19       34       100.00%
narcotics     16.0       52.4       90.1       5        34       58       100.00%
firearms      79.7       85.3       90.6       1        20       101      47.40%

There are 19 systems in chart 1 that are in this group, and it's worth noting that their stated economy if either "Strong" or "Extreme" Agricultural.

What do you think? Is this kind of what you'd be expecting?

Posted: **Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:22 am**

In the hope I've got this working now, here's a download link: SWEconomy_3.9.1.oxz

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