Oolite Bulletins

Milo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:54 am

I “invested” several times in my home system via the F3 10k credit item, but there was no obvious result (the credits were taken but no feedback was given on how that affected my status in the system). The reputation interface in F4 still lists me as a casual acquaintance. It might be useful to display the total lifetime investment amount there, to at least show that the purchases were tracked and the credits didn’t just go into a black hole. I haven’t looked into the code here so as not to spoil my experience discovering what effects this OXP will have, so this feedback is from a perspective of complete ignorance about what investing in the system actually does.

Ditto. Just invested a further (first) 10000 cr in my home system (Xexedi). Am I missing something with the F4 and reputation display mentioned in the Milo quote? I have no entry from Home System OXP on the Interfaces screen and nothing on the Manifest screen relating to it.

Am I meant to?

I'm looking to create some visibility of the level of investment the player has reached in their home system. Maybe some word-smithy peoplke can help me compile a list of investment levels, similar to what we have with player ratings (eg "Harmless", "Mostly Harmless", etc)

Something like:
- Donor
- Supporter
- Contributor
- Benefactor
- Patron

Other options?

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:13 am

I'm looking to create some visibility of the level of investment the player has reached in their home system. Maybe some word-smithy people can help me compile a list of investment levels, similar to what we have with player ratings (eg "Harmless", "Mostly Harmless", etc)

Something like:
- Donor
- Supporter
- Contributor
- Benefactor
- Patron

Other options?

Investor
Bestower: Benevolent Bestower/Beneficent Bestower/Beatific Bestower (not for a communist state!)/Beloved Bestower
Subscriber
Backer
Friend
Guarantor


On another note, might substantial donations not confer the option of subjecthood/citizenship of the system? Or something that would signal such to Commander Day's Diplomancy.oxp?

And what about Ramirez's Feudal States? And any relevant missions.oxp's?

Is there any way of tying these OXP's together so that they can feed off of each other?

Proposed investment levels

For me, property owner means "manager of a property which use/sale/rent exclusivity is guaranteed by the government".
And an investment is an assignment of property dedicated to the development of another property.
So:
- family head
- real estate owner
- company owner
- conglomerate leader
- industry captain
- lord of wars
- prince
- sovereign

Day wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:26 pm

For me, property owner means "manager of a property which use/sale/rent exclusivity is guaranteed by the government".

While the investment might ultimately be applied to real estate by the government, I was imaging a more generic type of investment, like shares or bonds.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:07 am

On another note, might substantial donations not confer the option of subjecthood/citizenship of the system? Or something that would signal such to Commander Day's Diplomancy.oxp?

That's certainly possible. I haven't looked into Diplomancy yet, so I'll have a poke around and see what I fine. Here's a question though: The way I have the system working at the moment, you can have up to 3 home systems active at any one time, and you can drop your home system link at any time. I can imagine there would be quite a bit of logic to be applied, depending on the system (eg some systems may not allow you to hold citizenship of another system if you want to be a citizen there). Fancy coming up with a rule-set?

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:07 am

And what about Ramirez's Feudal States? And any relevant missions.oxp's?

Is there any way of tying these OXP's together so that they can feed off of each other?

Um, yeah, about that...

It's certainly possible (pretty much anything is possible, given enough time and enthusiasm), but it does raise the difficulty level somewhat. My goal with this OXP was to make it a fairly light touch when it comes to linkages and interactions, which allows it to function regardless of whatever OXP's are installed.

As for missions, that shouldn't be too hard, and wouldn't require a lot of linkages (I'd probably make the Bulletin Board system a prerequisite in this case). Feel free to send any ideas you might have for Home System missons (you can PM them if you like, to prevent spoilers).

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:07 am

Or something that would signal such to Commander Day's Diplomancy.oxp?

OK, I've had a look at Diplomancy. To use an example, the price of citizenship at Tibedied in Gal 0 is 3200cr. By contrast, a single investment made through Home System is a standard 10000cr. I think this illustrates that Day and I were thinking of different things when putting our implementations together. (And on a purely technical standpoint, Day hasn't provided any public-facing interfaces to change citizenship. I can see the code to do it, but he has quite clearly labelled those function are for internal use only.)

But should an investment automatically grant citizenship? I'm not sure it does. It certainly doesn't in real life. Happy to bat the idea around, though.

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:19 pm

But should an investment automatically grant citizenship? I'm not sure it does. It certainly doesn't in real life. Happy to bat the idea around, though.

There are countries, Philippines for example, who, for a certain investment in bonds, grant you residency. Usually enhanced rights like improved visa and work permit but not the citizenship. A possible scenario could be residency leading to citizenship after some time automatically, probably with another investment at the end.

It is very, very odd to invest in my home system through the F3 shipyard page!

Is there really no way at all of doing it through the F4 page?

Say under the Commerce category - or the Organisations Category (through a money transfer business - is there one advertised on YAH?), or the Embassy District (under the Diplomacy category)?

I'm happy to trawl through the YAH advertisements for details if there is a money-transfer business in there somewhere...

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:47 pm

It is very, very odd to invest in my home system through the F3 shipyard page!

Well, officially it's the "Ship outfitting" page, but your point is the same!

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:47 pm

s there really no way at all of doing it through the F4 page?

It can certainly be done from the F4 page. The reasons for putting it on the F3 screen are that (a) it's something to purchase, and that screen handles purchases automatically - doing it on the F4 page means doing everything manually (displaying items, pagination, checking you have enough credits, subtracting credits, etc); and (b) I was trying to avoid having an F4 page do a single function. There's also the non-intuitive nature of the F4 screen - if every other thing you purchase is on the F3 screen, why go to the F4 screen for this one? (The F3 screen is also a non-intuitive location for a non-ship purchase, but slightly less so). And when other OXP's follow this path, each with their own single-function purchase form, we get a lot more items on the F4 page. Or we come up with some sort of unified interface OXP's can hook into that will allow for all this non-ship-related items to be gathered in one place.

So, TL;DR - basically, it was easier to put it on the F3 screen, and a lot more work to put it on the F4 screen!

phkb wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:16 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:47 pm

It is very, very odd to invest in my home system through the F3 shipyard page!

Well, officially it's the "Ship outfitting" page, but your point is the same!

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:47 pm

s there really no way at all of doing it through the F4 page?

It can certainly be done from the F4 page. The reasons for putting it on the F3 screen are that (a) it's something to purchase, and that screen handles purchases automatically - doing it on the F4 page means doing everything manually (displaying items, pagination, checking you have enough credits, subtracting credits, etc); and (b) I was trying to avoid having an F4 page do a single function. There's also the non-intuitive nature of the F4 screen - if every other thing you purchase is on the F3 screen, why go to the F4 screen for this one? (The F3 screen is also a non-intuitive location for a non-ship purchase, but slightly less so). And when other OXP's follow this path, each with their own single-function purchase form, we get a lot more items on the F4 page. Or we come up with some sort of unified interface OXP's can hook into that will allow for all this non-ship-related items to be gathered in one place.

So, TL;DR - basically, it was easier to put it on the F3 screen, and a lot more work to put it on the F4 screen!

*I can buy visas and citizenship for Diplomancy on the F4 screen.
*Life in the Frontier where I can give dosh to beggars, pay GalCop fines & pay for visits to hotels, drinks in bars and museum entry tickets is accessed through the F4 screen.
*New Cargoes is accessed through the F4 screen
*HoOpy Gambling is done through the F4 screen

There is probably more, too.

I presume from what you write that the F4 situation is therefore an unholy mess! And the authors of the four relevant oxp's have seemingly been devoured by the Witchspace Lobster...

Life on the Frontier was one of the very first oxp's I downloaded, so the F4 never seemed a counter-intuitive choice for me as regards spending dosh...

Something else to consider adding to Home System is a cargo and/or ship storage area.

It might be easy to rent storage for small amounts of cargo for 1 credit/day per TC of cargo...with that cost decreasing as you become a bigger patron.
...Depending on the danger of the system (read: Anarchy = bad!), your cargo may be stolen by thieves or confiscated by GalCop (if contraband) if you're a near-nobody.

A ship storage area should be much harder to get, and initially only support 1 ship stored there...which you can swap into/out of.
If at very high patron levels, maybe that ship can be piloted by a loyal follower and you become its escort?
The prestige loss should be huge if that's destroyed, as well you're down the costs of replacing it.

Both cargo and ship storage may only be available at either the main station or a big secondary station.
Rock Hermit stations need not apply -- that would be better suited for the Hermitage OXP.

How about also an "honorary" Home System award to someone who's done something noteworthy in a system, at least if they have no other Home System selected?

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:13 pm

Day wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:26 pm

For me, property owner means "manager of a property which use/sale/rent exclusivity is guaranteed by the government".

While the investment might ultimately be applied to real estate by the government, I was imaging a more generic type of investment, like shares or bonds.

So does one eventually receive dividends or a coupon?

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:55 pm

So does one eventually receive dividends or a coupon?

Not in terms of a cash payout, but certainly in terms of system benefits.

Switeck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 4:54 pm

Something else to consider adding to Home System is a cargo and/or ship storage area.

I could certainly leverage Equipment Storage OXP, which allows equipment and cargo to be stored at the main station, potentially adding discounts as your rep in the system increases.

Switeck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 4:54 pm

How about also an "honorary" Home System award to someone who's done something noteworthy in a system, at least if they have no other Home System selected?

How noteworthy would it need to be? Destroy a few pirates or Thargoids?

What strikes me as a good idea would be investing somehow in a local business.

For example, in a maintenance shop in a system station - and then getting a slight discount and a slightly higher TL when buying equipment or getting a maintenance overhaul.

Or heavily investing in a planetside business - and eventually watch the system's GDP/TL increase by a notch or two!

Or the ability to buy a local New Cargoes commodity at a slight discount

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:47 pm

Switeck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 4:54 pm

How about also an "honorary" Home System award to someone who's done something noteworthy in a system, at least if they have no other Home System selected?

How noteworthy would it need to be? Destroy a few pirates or Thargoids?

Possibly more than 10 pirates but only >4 Thargoids in a single attack, since big Thargoid attacks are scary in ways that pirate groups (which might be sponsored by the very system they're in) are not.
It might depend on how well-defended the system is for Thargoids and how much it "looks the other way" on piracy.
So a feudal system might be very happy that local hero pilot destroyed 3 Thargoids...but a TL 14 Corporate State would not be as impressed because that's "trivial" to it.

Similarly, an anarchy who's just lost 15 pirates to a visiting Deadly pilot might not be too happy with that pilot...

There might also be a weighting put on the types of ships destroyed -- Thargoid Battleships are a bit harder to deal with then the standard Thargoid Warships.

Killing 2-4 Thargoids in 1 go in a system might merit a small increase in prestige in the system, but only if the pilot/ship has already declared that system as their home system.