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Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:04 am
by Eric Walch
Commander McLane wrote:It ejected all but one pods. I'd very much prefer single pods. I don't know why one pod remained on the ship.
There stays one pod in the ship because the code is:
Code: Select all
for (i = 1; i < [cargo count]; i++)
{
[self performSelector:@selector(dumpCargo) withObject:nil afterDelay:0.75 * i]; // drop 3 canisters per 2 seconds
}
What I don't know is, if this was intentionally so the ship can dump the last pod on a second opportunity, or that it was unintended (read Bug).
I assume its a bug. If it was intentionally there would be a comment that the last one was intentionally not dumped.
However, for general play I like that not all are dumped at once and the ship now is able to dump a pod again on a second occasion.
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:33 am
by Wildeblood
Commander McLane wrote:Hint for other devious scripters: the basic functionality of ejectCargoAI could well be transformed into a Milking Missile, because it also works on non-derelict ships.
It could also be used for a rendezvous and transfer cargo scene, where two ships each have some cargo headed for destination A and some for destination B, so they rendezvous en-route and transfer cargo after which one ship has all the cargo for destination A and the other ship has all the cargo for destination B.
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:40 am
by Commander McLane
Eric Walch wrote:Commander McLane wrote:It ejected all but one pods. I'd very much prefer single pods. I don't know why one pod remained on the ship.
There stays one pod in the ship because the code is:
Code: Select all
for (i = 1; i < [cargo count]; i++)
{
[self performSelector:@selector(dumpCargo) withObject:nil afterDelay:0.75 * i]; // drop 3 canisters per 2 seconds
}
What I don't know is, if this was intentionally so the ship can dump the last pod on a second opportunity, or that it was unintended (read Bug).
I assume its a bug. If it was intentionally there would be a comment that the last one was intentionally not dumped.
However, for general play I like that not all are dumped at once and the ship now is able to dump a pod again on a second occasion.
A I said, for my scripting situation I would prefer if the ship would dump only one pod. Although during normal gameplay, while "teasing" an Anaconda, I am perfectly happy with getting a lot of cargopods. (Although it can be annoying if the Anaconda
pitches while dumping. As a result all cargopods fly away in different directions.)
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:21 pm
by CommonSenseOTB
Wildeblood wrote:Commander McLane wrote:Hint for other devious scripters: the basic functionality of ejectCargoAI could well be transformed into a Milking Missile, because it also works on non-derelict ships.
It could also be used for a rendezvous and transfer cargo scene, where two ships each have some cargo headed for destination A and some for destination B, so they rendezvous en-route and transfer cargo after which one ship has all the cargo for destination A and the other ship has all the cargo for destination B.
Excellent suggestion Wildeblood. Looks like a possible upgrade for bigshipsAI and Bulk Haulers in general. Would also need a js.scipt interaction to launch some kind of shuttles/ships with scoops from the mainstation and eject the cargo just before they get there. Could be interesting to watch/see as you approach/leave the main station. Also could be an upgrade for deep space pirates as well, transferring cargo to a clean fence/ship. Well done.
The act of hacking the cargo ejection system of a ship is akin to a thief jimmying a door of a house with a crowbar. It's just a way to get access to the goods. In this case all(but one)of the cargo is ejected and it's grab and run, sort later. It's not out of context to have all the cargo ejected at once when the system is hacked. It fits. It comes off as a crude but effective method that a thief would employ. If I was a pirate, I would buy a device that could remotely eject all it's cargo. Grab and run, just like a real thief.
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:37 pm
by Thargoid
No, not for bigShips AI. That is by nature a default and generic AI usable by all oversized ships, not only cargo haulers. So for a ship to be doing this kind of dance would be something very specific, and so should have its own custom-written AI for it (and also a suitable script, as some of it may well not be capable by AI alone).
That's not to say it's not an interesting concept, but it's not one for the generic AI in bigships. The OXP populates by role and not AI though, it's quite happy to work with any AI as long as the ship has the correct role.
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:55 pm
by JensAyton
Wildeblood wrote:It's irritating that the core game allows the cheat of "scooping" fuel from stars for those players who are too cheap to pay for it, when it's literally cheaper than dirt
Presumably it’s that cheap
because it’s easily gathered from stars. The fact that it’s sold cheaply at stations suggests widespread fuel-gathering operations catering to captains who can’t be bothered to take the time to get their own… which looks like an OXP waiting to happen to me.
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:00 pm
by another_commander
And of course, we must not forget that it is cheap also for practical reasons. An experienced pilot with loads of money in the bank will not think twice before topping up the tank, but the green Jameson could find himself having a really hard time making any kind of progress in the game, had the fuel been any more expensive than what it currently is. Remember, all of us started at 100Cr. At the start of the game, the fuel price could make the difference between making a profit and making a loss.
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:28 pm
by DaddyHoggy
another_commander wrote: Remember, all of us started at 100Cr. At the start of the game, the fuel price could make the difference between making a profit and making a loss.
Sadly, it would seem, with a certain clique of relatively new Oolite players this cardinal point no longer holds true...
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:32 pm
by Wildeblood
DaddyHoggy wrote:another_commander wrote: Remember, all of us started at 100Cr. At the start of the game, the fuel price could make the difference between making a profit and making a loss.
Sadly, it would seem, with a certain clique of relatively new Oolite players this cardinal point no longer holds true...
I would take offence at that if it hadn't made me laugh out loud.
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:32 pm
by DaddyHoggy
Ahruman wrote:Wildeblood wrote:It's irritating that the core game allows the cheat of "scooping" fuel from stars for those players who are too cheap to pay for it, when it's literally cheaper than dirt
Presumably it’s that cheap
because it’s easily gathered from stars. The fact that it’s sold cheaply at stations suggests widespread fuel-gathering operations catering to captains who can’t be bothered to take the time to get their own… which looks like an OXP waiting to happen to me.
Indeed, I suggest the very thing many years ago - but that's an easy thing to suggest - but, as ever, for me, relies, on the implementation by somebody else.
Big processing plants relatively close to the sun - drawing in huge amounts of stellar matter as it pours away from the star - burning off excess Hydrogen while the quirium gets pumped into big storage tanks ready to be shipped by tanker to the system's main stations.
And they'll tell you that they barely make 0.1Cr per ly's worth, the rest is all tax apparently...
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:36 pm
by DaddyHoggy
Wildeblood wrote:DaddyHoggy wrote:another_commander wrote: Remember, all of us started at 100Cr. At the start of the game, the fuel price could make the difference between making a profit and making a loss.
Sadly, it would seem, with a certain clique of relatively new Oolite players this cardinal point no longer holds true...
I would take offence at that if it hadn't made me laugh out loud.
You're just lucky you had a rich and dead uncle, me <Monty_Python_Yorkshireman>I had t' lick station clean, get up before I went t' bed and drink liquid quirium. And I were grateful for it.</Monty_Python_Yorkshireman>
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:39 pm
by Wildeblood
DaddyHoggy wrote:Ahruman wrote:Presumably it’s that cheap because it’s easily gathered from stars. The fact that it’s sold cheaply at stations suggests widespread fuel-gathering operations catering to captains who can’t be bothered to take the time to get their own… which looks like an OXP waiting to happen to me.
Indeed, I suggest the very thing many years ago - but that's an easy thing to suggest - but, as ever, for me, relies, on the implementation by somebody else.
An OXP waiting to happen!? Neither of you have seen Commies.oxp? What do you think goes on at the SLAPUs? Solar Laboratory And Processing Unit - the best places to get cheap fuel. [Shakes head at the newbies.]
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:42 pm
by JensAyton
DaddyHoggy wrote:And they'll tell you that they barely make 0.1Cr per ly's worth, the rest is all tax apparently...
It’s them hydrogen offsets, mate. They say all the extra H₂O we’re pumping out will cool the planets noticeably in a couple of billion years, but I don’t know, sounds like a cheap shot at honest businessmen like meself, if you want my opinion. If they need the money, why not tax those big Hoopy casinos? I know they tell everyone they’re barely making anything what with overheads, but if you’re raking it in hand over fist you can buy a dozen accountants to say that, no problem. Well, they say you get the government you deserve, but I voted for Kodos, and where did that get me, eh?
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:12 pm
by CommonSenseOTB
As I said before:
The act of hacking the cargo ejection system of a ship is akin to a thief jimmying a door of a house with a crowbar. It's just a way to get access to the goods. In this case all(but one)of the cargo is ejected and it's grab and run, sort later. It's not out of context to have all the cargo ejected at once when the system is hacked. It fits. It comes off as a crude but effective method that a thief would employ. If I was a pirate, I would buy a device that could remotely eject all it's cargo. Grab and run, just like a real thief.
Would anyone else buy and use this device? In what way would such a device best be implemented? Separate or combined with another oxp?
Is this idea at least as good as going back and forth to the sun endlessly swatting pirates for a nickel in fuel processing?
Re: new device, pirates tool perhaps
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:21 pm
by Eric Walch
CommonSenseOTB wrote:Would anyone else buy and use this device? In what way would such a device best be implemented? Separate or combined with another oxp?
You don't need such a devise to let traders eject their cargo. All traders that initially attack you (instead of fleeing) will eject their cargo at the moment they realise they can't win and decide to flee after all.
Its a feature added for the player as it will not do it against npc ships, only against the player. Probably to avoid spamming the whole galaxy with drifting cargo.