Oolite Bulletins

Commander Trigg wrote:

Incidentally, I've added the YAH OXP and have yet to come across any of the stores, just the rather fetching billboards, so maybe when I find one of those my opinion may change somewhat.

Get yourself an Advanced Space Compass and use it to find the Constores. They are usually found near the Witchpoint Beacons, though not in Anarchy systems usually.

JazHaz wrote:

Get yourself an Advanced Space Compass and use it to find the Constores. They are usually found near the Witchpoint Beacons, though not in Anarchy systems usually.

I have one of those but it only points to the pre-add on things. Either I installed the add on wrong (likely) or the systems I'm visiting don't have stores.

Now if only I had a compass to direct me towards the YAH OXP thread, I can read up on it and see where I'm going wrong...

Edit:
Surprise surprise, it was my mistake - I left the oxp inside it's folder when I unzipped

Commander Trigg wrote:

JazHaz wrote:

Get yourself an Advanced Space Compass and use it to find the Constores.

I have one of those but it only points to the pre-add on things. Either I installed the add on wrong (likely) or the systems I'm visiting don't have stores.

If you press the \ key you can tab through the targets. Visit the ASC Wiki page for a list of the targets.: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Advanced_Space_Compass

Commander Trigg wrote:

Now if only I had a compass to direct me towards the YAH OXP thread, I can read up on it and see where I'm going wrong...

Your wish is my command! http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Your_Ad_Here!

The other idea that occurs to me would be if certain commodities got a lot more valuable the further they were hauled. e.g. if the fish eggs you picked up as food at 3 Cr/t turned into luxuries when they got to be 30LY from home or something.

Killer Wolf wrote:

no, Cobra. a beginner (arguably) shouldn't be risking going into dubious systems because their ship shouldn't be good enough (imo) to make the risk worth it.

Ah, yes. As a very beginner, food was a welcome trade - up to more than 100% gain (minus fuel).
It was only once I had a 1000 credits for spare, that I dumped the food trading.

bigmike20vt wrote:

i cant really think of any device which would be able to scan your hold and know what you had.

We recently had this (real life) non-discussion for "full body scanners" on airports. I don't think it is too far fetched going from there, and then it is SF -> enhanced techniques, it seems "imagineable" to me.

Or them "pirates intelligence secret services" Griff came up with.

good point.

I've taken the concept of re-imagining the trading aspect of the game and run with it.

I believe I've come up with a system that reduces the traditional milk runs and encourages commanders to trade with a bigger variety of commodities and in more systems. I've also come up with a reasonable explanation for the various price levels that fit into the ooniverse.

Unfortunately, I have 0 ability when it comes to writing any sort of script (I was so proud when I changed my keyconfig file so that the space bar fired my lasers).

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Oolite trading system

Overview

The aim is to rebalance the trading system in order to encourage pilots to visit a wider range of systems and utilise a wider range of goods. This will need to reduce the profitability of poor agricultural – rich corporate “milk runs”.

There are two ways of manipulating what items are sold – price and availability. A low price will discourage pilots from selling goods at a specific system, while low or 0 availability will prevent these goods being purchased for a quick profit.

The basic type of item imported and exported by each system is based on the economy type and wealth level, with modifiers for government type. There is also a random element in list prices that may reduce / increase the profits from any trading run.

Economy types

Poor Agricultural
Poor Agricultural systems are a small step away from operating on a subsistence level and the population concentrate almost exclusively on growing food crops. Those few crops that aren’t used to fend off starvation are either sold for export or converted into potent fermented concoctions, very little of this brew makes it off-planet however. The average farmer has little need for the finer things in life and as such there is little demand for luxuries and computers. Machinery is highly sought after however, particularly tractors and harvesters which allow the farmer to make better use of his land. The more adventurous among the population head off into the wilderness on hunting expeditions to collect the pelts of the local wildlife and it is these furs that bring in the majority of the planet’s off-world credits.

Rich Agricultural
Factory farming is the order of business on these worlds. Crops are plentiful and this allows the farmer a relatively easy life and they can even indulge in the occasional luxury. A significant amount of the crops are converted into liquor and fine wines – which brings these systems the nickname of galactic vineyards. The most pressing need amongst the population is for computers which are used not only to manage the sprawling farmlands but also much-needed entertainment.

Poor Industrial
Picture a landscape of row upon un-ending row of grey factories, smoke belching towards the skies and you have a pretty good idea of what life is like on a poor industrial planet. These factories churn out large quantities of low-grade mechanical goods, alongside the radioactives that are the inevitable side-effect of the manufacturing process. There is a high level of alcohol dependency and drug abuse amongst the population as they attempt to escape the drudgery of their dull, uneventful lives

Rich Industrial
On rich industrial planets you will find a more skilled workforce, specialising in producing all the marvels of the modern age – everything from top spec computer systems to the latest in robot butlers. This climate has bred something of a “nouveau riche” culture, with the well dressed constantly in search of the latest exotic furs to stay one step ahead of the fashion police. With this culture comes a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the more “common” pastimes of drink and drugs, however a commander may find a willing market for the more unusual luxury items.

What this means:

Poor Agricultural systems sell furs and buy machinery
Rich Agricultural systems sell liquor and buy computers
Poor Industrial systems sell machinery and buy liquor
Rich Industrial systems sell computers and buy furs

A sample trading route would therefore be: Rich Agricultural, buy liquor – Poor Industrial, sell liquor and buy machinery – Poor Agricultural, sell machinery and buy furs – Rich Industrial, sell furs and buy computers – Rich Agricultural, sell computers and buy liquor.

Smaller profits would be available through cross-trading other items between the systems. Alloys and minerals are cheaper on agricultural worlds and can be sold to industrial worlds. Radioactives are easily available on industrial worlds and will be wanted as power sources on Agricultural worlds. Poor worlds produce luxury goods which are in demand on Rich worlds, while narcotics are wanted by poor worlds to alleviate the daily grind and can be purchased from the rich.

Average worlds have prices in between those of rich and poor, so provide a smaller profit margin than these systems.

Government types

Anarchy
Slaves, narcotics and firearms have a lower price in anarchies compared to more stable systems. All prices tend to be slightly lower to encourage the player to take the risk of visiting these systems for a quick reward when they visit another system to offload their cargo.

Communist
A good price can be found on mass-produced items (machinery/textiles depending on economy type) Liquor (in the form of vodka) tends to have a lower price while there is very little demand for luxuries and it is rare to find these available on the stock market.

Corporate
The corporate systems will have a slightly increased difference in their import / export prices, which reflects the cut throat nature of business dealings on these systems.

Democracy
As this is a fairly stable form of government I've used this as the basis for the price fluctuations that appear under the other systems.

Dictatorship
Although prices remain fairly consistent with the norm, stock availability tends to fluctuate wildly in response to the erratic whims of the current ruler. Occasionally these whims only change when the glorious leader is deposed but given the frequency with which this happens the average trader can expect a completely different look to the market on their next visit. This level of variation can lead to healthy profits for the intrepid trader – along with a few wasted journeys

Others
Special attention will need to be paid to the ConMart stations implemented by the Your Ad Here OXP and Rock Hermits OXP to ensure that prices stay in balance with the rest of the game and don’t drastically skew trading values. There may also be conflicts with the Bloomberg Markets OXP which would need to be addressed.

Profit Levels

Following the trade route suggested above, the commander could expect to make a profit of around 20C/t on the primary imports/exports and around 10 C/t on secondary imports/exports, although fluctuations and government types would influence this. There would also be a limited number of trade items at bargain prices (e.g. computers in a poor agricultural system) which were either left there by a poor trader or sold on by pirates after being scooped.

Commander Trigg wrote:

Unfortunately, I have 0 ability when it comes to writing any sort of script

Me too!

But I think what you are proposing is quite workable, and worth pursuing.

Commander Trigg wrote:

I've taken the concept of re-imagining the trading aspect of the game and run with it.

{big snip}

Dictatorship
Although prices remain fairly consistent with the norm, stock availability tends to fluctuate wildly in response to the erratic whims of the current ruler. Occasionally these whims only change when the glorious leader is deposed but given the frequency with which this happens the average trader can expect a completely different look to the market on their next visit. This level of variation can lead to healthy profits for the intrepid trader – along with a few wasted journeys

This brings to mind another question. In the current game, are prices sensitive to stock levels? I've never noticed, but they should be.

Commander Trigg wrote:

Others
Special attention will need to be paid to the ConMart stations implemented by the Your Ad Here OXP and Rock Hermits OXP to ensure that prices stay in balance with the rest of the game and don’t drastically skew trading values. There may also be conflicts with the Bloomberg Markets OXP which would need to be addressed.

Profit Levels

Following the trade route suggested above, the commander could expect to make a profit of around 20C/t on the primary imports/exports and around 10 C/t on secondary imports/exports, although fluctuations and government types would influence this. There would also be a limited number of trade items at bargain prices (e.g. computers in a poor agricultural system) which were either left there by a poor trader or sold on by pirates after being scooped.

There are a lot of excellent ideas there.

Perversely, this touches on my 'problem' as well. After countless hours of fighting and trading, I am now the proud owner of an Iron Ass Boa Class Cruiser, which IMHO is the best standard Oolite ship by far...Cobra-like performance with serious lugging capacity. It is fully loaded equipment wise (click on the link in my signature to see the full spec) and without even trying, I'm making a fortune but have nothing to spend it on! Where do I go from here? I know this will sound ridiculous to some of you and others will wish they had this problem, but the game really needs a cool way of spending money when you've got too much! What do you give the Commander who's got everything?

Those are some good ideas, Commander Trigg. On the face of it, it's also quite doable as an OXP.

Taking the economy types, it would be relatively easy to create price and stock levels that match those descriptions, e.g. for Poor Agriculturals, forcing the price and volume of luxuries down because there's just no demand for them. Using the same basic method as in BlOomberg Markets, a script can identify all the systems to which the price fix needs to be applied and then run the necessary override.

In the current mechanism there is no relationship with between prices/stocks and government type. Instead, Oolite handles this when it does the galaxy seeding by limiting the economies and tech levels that each government is likely to have - hence you don't see highly-advanced industrialised anarchies. However, if you want to take the fiction even further you could develop specific price lists for economy-government combinations. Not all the combinations are viable and maybe you'd only want to apply a change where it has a major impact.

While I wouldn't necessarily say the core game should be changed for this, it would be an interesting experiment - maybe something for the hardened traders who'd like more of a challenge. Could even just apply it to a particular galaxy for test purposes.

If you like I'll try playing around with some figures. I guess a way to start would be to try taking the graph in the BOomberg thread, redrawing it to fit the descriptions, then working out what numbers in the commodities.plist would get those results.

A lot will depend on how Oolite handles prices and quantities of various items and the differences between various system types I suppose.

If I were to work up an average price and supply level for the 4 economy types I've mentioned and a few rules for how these will change depending on government type, how hard would it be to implement these changes into an oxp?

I am interested in the trading system too, and have been given this very helpful link / explanations :

Commander McLane wrote:

@ snork: If you want to dig deeper into how commodities.plist works, feel free to follow this thread, which may be helpful.

and of course the wiki - http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Commodities.plist

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You can also take a look at the charts in the wiki planetlist summaries (here for galaxy 1), to get an idea how many of what kind of worlds actually exist.

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wades wrote:

This brings to mind another question. In the current game, are prices sensitive to stock levels?

from the explanantion(s) in Cmdr. McLane's post(s) - no.

As an aside with regards stock-level based pricing:

A long time ago in a galaxy, far, far away I used to play a game called Federation of Free Traders (FOFT) on my Amiga - I remember distinctly that FOFT had a dynamic stock market and I discovered once you had even a moderate sum of money and a big ship, you need never "trade" again. You bought anything that fitted completely in your hold, for whatever price it asked and then you waited, and after a bit the price would spike because there was suddenly nothing of this commodity left, so you immediately sold the contents of your hold and flooded the market, then you waited a bit and lo the market crashed. Get what you did next?

So I think a dynamic market is a good idea, but I say proceed with caution!

I seem to recall several discussions in which it was concluded that the quantities being traded were too small to impact the market prices...