Leaving

[drew]

* copyright 2009 David TW Hughes. Licensed under a CC-MINE-MINE-MINE model under US and UK and LUNAR copyright laws. Use without permission will be punished with nuking from orbit since it's the only way to be sure.

I was thinking of completing my Oolite Novella Trilogy. Made a start on 'Miserabilis', though it's a bit short given current licensing restrictions.

Rebecca was rather surprised when the universe she grew up in underwent a spontaneous, and rather unexpected, total existence failure mid-chapter. Was it the end of the Ooniverse? Truth is, we don't know!

Feedback as always.

Cheers,

Drew.

[JensAyton]

Hello all! Looks like I picked a dark day to randomly drop by after months (years?) of Oolite absence...

1 year, 5 months and 24 days. When you left, you said you’d be returning later that day. We’ve all been holding our breath. ;-)

[Thargoid]

You mean you're not naturally that shade of blue-purple?

[LittleBear]

Thanks guys for all your kind comments. But I think most are rather missing the point. OSE quite deliberatley overwrites all code any other writer submits.

This is the problem. Its practicle not legal. I (or any other writer) cannot update or fix my own code, if Lestrade (with I accept the best of intentions) realeses OXPs that are desgined to overwrite all other author's updates.

What is the point in an individual OXP writer realeasing a new OXP if all changes made to the code are just overwriten by zzzz-OSE ?

It would be rather like Drew realeasing a new version of one of his stories, only to find that nobody could read his new version because all of his changes are overwritten back to the old version by zzz-Oolite Stories.oxp!

I can't write code for a project if someone else stops me from changing it.

OSE is an overwite OXP.

Unlike all other OXPS, which complement each other, zzzz-OSE overwrites any code (if the user has it installed) which the orginal author submits. It is a block on creativity.

OSE changes every writer's code to the version L has decided is the best one. I cannot write code for a project if somebody else releases an OXP which is desgined to (and does) overwrite everying I've done.

I'm not being a prema-donna by withdrawing.

The Lord L has decided that he will release an OXP to overwrite everything I ever submitted.

Therefore I cannot submit anything as any code I write is overwritten by OSE.

L's Master Ring is very much One Ring to Rule them All and in the darkness bind them!

It woudn't matter if I realeased new and improved versions of all my OXPs tomorrow. You as a player would not be able to enjoy any new features as Lestrade's OXP would disable them all.

I can't write code when L's Master Ring stops me doing so.

[Captain Tylor]

I`ll miss you and your OXP`s. Wish you would stay on as surely this only applies if OSE is installed which I am sure is not the case for a large portion of this community. (not that I know anything mind you)

[LittleBear]

Many people may not have OSE installed, but it is impossible to work on code for a project when another 'writer' realeases his version of your own code which overwrites your own.

I cannot fix bugs in my own OXPs because Lestade has overwritten all my bug fixes with OSE.

[Kaks]

He's also withdrawn O(S)E, so people who want to play Random Hits can only get it from you now.

The best thing, to prevent a similar problem in the future, is to add something like the CC-by-NC-ND licence to the readme & copyright notices.

[JensAyton]

The best thing, to prevent a similar problem in the future, is to add something like the CC-by-NC-ND licence to the readme & copyright notices.

I certainly wouldn’t call it the best thing. Most OXPers want to permit the more usual (in this context) type of derivative works, where code is used as a basis to do something different, with different unique identifiers.

For that purpose, ND is a killing flies with a bazooka. Licenses for this type of use exist, but I’m no aware of an appropriate off-the-shelf one.

[Thargoid]

It's also aaaaaaa_OSE, rather than zzzzzzzz_OSE (ok, the number of a's and z's may not be correct, but you get the idea). It's been deliberately changed to make OSE a foundation rather than a ruler, so that if it's put-in in parallel with original OXPs, the originals will overwrite OSE, not the other way about. I suggested L do this a few months ago for the very reason of improving compatibility and pissing less people off, and he accepted my argument and acted on it.

I'm afraid your information there (which is unfortunately the base of your argument) is outdated and wrong. So I would hope this gives you pause for reconsideration.

[Chaky]

I cannot fix bugs in my own OXPs because Lestade has overwritten all my bug fixes with OSE.

I really really really don't get it...

If he modified your work..:

a) doesn't that mandate HIM to do the bug-squishing, and not you? I mean, if it is changed, then it is not your original work and you are not eligible for those bugs in that version.

b) How does that translate into "My original work must stop"? Says who that there can't be deviates of your work, and your support/development of your original OXPs?

c) There is a C word that has become profanity here... co-operation.

I mean, when I put out something here.. I can't really expect that there will not be any edited offspring of my work (no OXPs yet, but I got other material). But, if someone approached me with my edited stuff.. I don't see why I would flame him/her for mantling with my precious little bits right away. For all I know, it might be far better than I could ever have made it.

That is why I just don't give a rat's ass of what happens with those files I create. Saves me allot of grief and flaming.

As far as I'm concerned, all that interpreting of licenses, agreements and whatever regulations there are, comes down to simple common courtesy of asking the creators for permission, and that common courtesy is the only licence or agreement that I comply to.

If someone took my creations without asking (and we're talking about a game... a GAME.. not a movie script, not a book, not music.. a GAME ADDON!)
Well, that leaves me with 2 choices: To bang my head against the wall and cry "fault", or not to.


My point here is.... I WANT MORE OXPs. MORE MORE MORE MORE BWHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAAA*cough*

[DaddyHoggy]

Thanks guys for all your kind comments. But I think most are rather missing the point. OSE quite deliberatley overwrites all code any other writer submits.

This is the problem. Its practicle not legal. I (or any other writer) cannot update or fix my own code, if Lestrade (with I accept the best of intentions) realeses OXPs that are desgined to overwrite all other author's updates.

What is the point in an individual OXP writer realeasing a new OXP if all changes made to the code are just overwriten by zzzz-OSE ?

It would be rather like Drew realeasing a new version of one of his stories, only to find that nobody could read his new version because all of his changes are overwritten back to the old version by zzz-Oolite Stories.oxp!

I can't write code for a project if someone else stops me from changing it.

OSE is an overwite OXP.

Unlike all other OXPS, which complement each other, zzzz-OSE overwrites any code (if the user has it installed) which the orginal author submits. It is a block on creativity.

OSE changes every writer's code to the version L has decided is the best one. I cannot write code for a project if somebody else releases an OXP which is desgined to (and does) overwrite everying I've done.

I'm not being a prema-donna by withdrawing.

The Lord L has decided that he will release an OXP to overwrite everything I ever submitted.

Therefore I cannot submit anything as any code I write is overwritten by OSE.

L's Master Ring is very much One Ring to Rule them All and in the darkness bind them!

It woudn't matter if I realeased new and improved versions of all my OXPs tomorrow. You as a player would not be able to enjoy any new features as Lestrade's OXP would disable them all.

I can't write code when L's Master Ring stops me doing so.

Sad for those of us who don't and never will use RS/O(S)E... (preferring to pick and chose our Ooniversal experience - the point of it after all!)

[Kaks]

Chacky, in my opinion LB was talking about a physical impossibility, rather than say, 'a mental block'. What Thargoid just explained, admittedly in a way that doesn't make much sense to non-oxp makers: for much of its development, O(S)E was set up so it would be the very last oxp to load inside Oolite. When that's the case, no original OXP can actually be installed and run alongside OE, because whatever is inside the original OXP will be overruled / overwritten / overshadowed by anything inside OE. So technically there would be no chance to test the original OXPs with O(S)E, even with the best will in the world.

It seems to me that LittleBear simply didn't know that the situation had changed (the ZZZZ to aaaa switcharoo) in a way that technically will make it possible to test individual OXPs togather with OE. To be fair with LB, the ZZZZZ thing was announced by L way back, and was one of the main features of RS, even before it got bigger than 100Mb.

The only way LB would have learnt of the changed situation would have been to read through the 50+ pages of the OE thread, or do a 900mb download, both pretty daunting prospects, and very likely part of the 'OXP making is no fun anymore ' feeling LB mentioned elsewhere.

I myself was not aware of the change, and I have tried to keep up to date with that meta OXP.

The points you're making could be answered thus:

a) I think that's what LB has said before too.

b) Instead of 'my original work must stop', in that context what LB said sounds to me more like: 'even with the best will of the world, I don't really see any way form me to physically update my OXP once a version of it is inside OE'

c) ZZZZ_OSE actively blocked that c word, aaaa_OE did actively encourages it.
It's a real shame that feature of OE wasn't explained more, and sooner. It's a detail, sure, but a detail of enormous significance.

[Roberto]

@ Ahruman

Yes, I'm clearly an outrageous liar! I doubt there's been much breath-holding, though

The reasons for my extended absence are probably fairly typical - basically, increased busyness and frustration at the lack of progress on an OXP I was working on. Now I'm just here to play

(If anyone is interested in taking over the stuff I was working on - a new mission centred on a battle amid asteroids close to a sun, a new ship and realistic "traffic" to and from a station I designed - then PM me. I'm sure most of you have plenty of stuff to be getting on with already, though!)

[jonnycuba]

@ LB,

Please reconsider leaving, have a holiday instead & come back with a fun filled mind!

I've played Oolite since it's alpha stages & have to say that your Assassins OXP is the most fun i've had.

If you do go, remember the good bits

[ClymAngus]

Pardon me pointing out the small point that;

The prince is dead long live the Senate. When Mr L left he took all his work with him (an act consistent with throwing the baby out with the bath water but I digress). Rendering any objection to said over writing a touch moot, in this particular instance. Although the possibility still remains.

Might I suggest that unless the oxp has been designated ABANDON WARE then oxp-jacking be considered the hight of bad manners without prior permission and CONTINUED concent.

Anyway you can't go, I build map 7 around your Oxp's. Take a look. To do so would risk being considered marginally uncouth, and lord knows we've seen plenty of that already. I still think we can at least salvage something from this burning mire if we put systems in place to prevent unnessessary software appropriation.