Oolite Bulletins

Killer Wolf wrote:

that, or a missile replacement that's a high energy beacon : launch it and it broadcasts an SOS. after a given time, a helper can arrive to give fuel or a tow via their wormhole. alternatively, maybe pirates will respond....or more Thargoids....

Why a missile replacement? I'd think that such an item would need enormous power of the ship itself, thus it most probably would be an internal item that automatically activates if the player is stranded in interstellar space (and some oxp's like cataclysm would want to be able to switch it off temporarily).

Screet

Killer Wolf wrote:

I don't see misjumps etc being a bug. it's part of the mythos, when you jump there's a chance Thargoids can stuff your journey and catapult you out into a firefight. that's not a bug, in my mind, it's all part of the game, that little tingle you'd get as the counter counted down, wonder if THIS time you'd end up somewhere you really didn't want to go. the fact that sometimes you were cast adrift w/out enough fuel is paramount to this, if it's "fixed" then there'd be no legends of ghosts of lost pilots etc, there wouldn't be as much threat in the event or apprehension.
personally, i think the fuel cannister thing is about as far as we need to go. that, or a missile replacement that's a high energy beacon : launch it and it broadcasts an SOS. after a given time, a helper can arrive to give fuel or a tow via their wormhole. alternatively, maybe pirates will respond....or more Thargoids....

Hmm... that's a fair point. Maybe, then, the easiest solution would be to integrate the fuel tank into the core game. You can fly without one if you like, but you're taking a risk.

Although I can't help feeling that the mystique is a little bit let down by the "Oh bugger, well, I'll just reload" factor. Pilots who get destroyed by the Thargoids in witchspace are still lost without trace: they jumped out, and never arrived. Who knows what happened to them? A "fix" that requires the player to defeat four Thargoids before rewarding him with an escape route back to where he was going doesn't, in my mind, really detract from that. Certainly not the first few times it happens: being plunged unexpectedly into the midst of four core-game Thargoids is a tough fight for just about anybody not flying the überest of überships. Providing an escape hatch only after the fight is won turns a potential "fight and die anyway" scenario (or rather, "since I'm dead either way, why bother fighting? Reload" scenario) into a "fight or die" scenario.

At the moment, I still think the core behaviour would be classed as a bug in any modern game. Frankly, I think it was a bug – or at least an error of design – in the original. Particularly if, the first time it happens, you were unlucky enough to have been in the middle of a long jump and are left stranded. It's a kick in the teeth, really. The game flings down a challenge. You – with great skill and fortitude – overcome that challenge and are triumphant, with a great story to add to your Commander's career. The game kills you anyway (although chances are you'll spend quite a long time in a futile search for some way out before giving up in exasperation and disgust). That's a lousy idea for a game.

Reading all this, something came up to my memory:

Wasn't it in original elite the way that a player in interstellar space could only activate his jump driver AFTER destroying all thargoids because they did continue to interfere with the technology, thus making any further jump attempts impossible?

If I do remember that properly...how about adding something like that to the code? I often see witchspace bubbles during interstellar battles with the thargoids, and I guess it would be much more challenging if such attempts to flee were not possible.

Screet

Griff wrote:

DH's quote from the dark wheel in the "Whichspace?" thread:

No-one has ever stopped and gone outside to find out. Only robot remotes exist there, switching stations, monitors, rescue Droids and the like. Whatever lives in Witch-Space, in the Faraway tunnels, will remain a mystery always.

Perhaps the clue is in the marked words? What are rescue droids? I think they should rescue stranded ships. Obviously the rescue would be transferring some fuel.

We can debate whether they would detect a stranded ship automatically or would have to be called by a beacon. They would probably be launched by the switching station. I also like Griff's idea to add those to the game.

And indeed, as Thargoid says, the script would be a mix of distress beacon or ettBeacon on the one hand side, and fuel station or interstellar help on the other hand side.

Note for scripting: There is no event handler that fires in the event of the player trying to jump out, but having insufficient fuel. At first glance it looks like playerJumpFailed would be your uncle, but it isn't. It is called only at the end of the countdown. If you have insufficient fuel, the countdown doesn't even start, so it obviously doesn't end, and the handler is never called. Therefore it is technically a little challenging to detect that the player tries to jump out, but can't.

Screet wrote:

Wasn't it in original elite the way that a player in interstellar space could only activate his jump driver AFTER destroying all thargoids because they did continue to interfere with the technology, thus making any further jump attempts impossible?

I remember it a little differently. In the case of a real misjump (as opposed to a forced one) you got the message "Witchspace engine malfunction!" on your screen, and it simply took some time until the engine was "repaired" and you could jump out. In the meantime "H" was disabled, or pressing it gave an error message. Until "H" was accessible again you had to fight off the Thargoids. But I don't think it was necessary to kill them all. You just had to stay alive for long enough, until the repair was completed. And of course, you still could have insufficient fuel afterwards. That's how I remember it. But still, I haven't encountered this kind of behaviour in Oolite, so this could be changed indeed.

Another way to get fuel to the stranded player could be to simply let the fuel tanks slowly refill automagically. Perhaps some property of witchspace itself; perhaps the energy used to create those wormholes permeates the place in such a way that fuel will slowly seep back into the tanks.
From a gameplay perspective this gives two viable solutions to get out of your predicament:
1 Defeat hostiles; select destination; (wait); jump
2 Select destination; survive until you have fuel; jump

Note: I'm not advocating this over other suggestions in this thread, just adding one more thing to the soup, stirring gently. (Personally, I like the Rescue Droids: I can imagine spotting one on the radar, racing towards it with a pack of Thargs on your tail, only to have the thing shot up before you reach it...)

One more thing.
If the intention is to make misjumps always survivable - ie as long as the player isn't shot out of the er, sky, there's always a way home - it should be a core game change. There's already enough OXPs out there that will do the job; unless it adds something really spectacular to the game, I cannot see the need for another.

Screet wrote:

Wasn't it in original elite the way that a player in interstellar space could only activate his jump driver AFTER destroying all thargoids because they did continue to interfere with the technology, thus making any further jump attempts impossible?

Concerning original Elite mis-jumps, I have a very dim memory of being dragged out of the wormhole,
surrounded by Thargoids, and a message appearing saying something like “Navigation Computer Damaged”.
I took out the Thargoids (not something I managed often) and congratulated myself, as it was a short jump
and I had enough fuel to escape; but I had no navcomp, so couldn’t target a system.

I was just stuck there.

edit: or maybe I'd missed one and it was doing what Screet suggests.

Anybody else remember this? Or is it a false memory…

"Why a missile replacement? "
cos it was a top-of-my-head suggestion. the point being it's a choice to buy/carry one (like a fuel cannister perhaps) but it's a trade off in losing a weapons slot.

"It would need to be a mine rather than a missile, as missiles need a target to be fired at. "
like i said, *replacement*. you'd just fire it off like a mine/buoy/whatever.

the fuel tank idea's a great one, i guess my option could be for the more aggressive pilot who fancies the chance of a bit extra combat.

Possible other enhancement/ideas re my thought :
- like Screet said, perhaps it could be a fitting : you press a button and a trasmitter fires off a hyperpowered signal. the trade off is it uses up 90% of your energy banks (ie, will only activate when you've enough power), so there's a chance someone unpleasant might answer quickly whilst you're recharging.
- as alternative to helpful ships, perhaps the help comes in the form of the Navy/whoever locking onto your signal and firing in a fuel cannister (repair droid?). this would be at a random position w/in scanner ranger that you'd have to hunt and scoop, which would then fill your tanks. perhaps on docking back in the real world you have to pay a service charge.