The Seraphim - A custom Ship OXP from start to finish.

wackyman465 · Post by **wackyman465** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:39 pm

Well I don't understand any of this modelmaking stuff, but thanks for doing the scale! I've always wondered what size Oolite ships are. I'm now surprised that the Anaconda carries 750t, but is approx. the same size as a CMKIII!

Scarecrow · Post by **Scarecrow** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:37 pm

BINGO!

I reverted to Python 2.6.1 and it worked first go.

I now have a flobit.dat

It didn't complain about not having an MTL but then it doesn't have a texture applied yet. It's just a quick, test mesh - a sphere with extrusions.

Okay then, so here's the next puzzle. I dropped my dat file into the models folder and replaced the buoy file with it, renaming etc.

When I ran Oolite the buoy still looked the same. How is this possible? It should either have used my model or no model atall. How did it still find the original Buoy model?

As for the scales I did on page 1. I'm not 100% sure about the Anaconda, Asp and CobraIII - though I think they're accurate - but the Viper and Buoy are exact sizes according to their vertex data. Of course, the models may be scaled up by the game engine and/or config file.

Crow

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:02 pm

this catches out a lot of oxp'ers - this sounds a lot like oolite is still using the old model from its cache of files, it's easy to clear out the cache though, just hold down the shift key on your keyboard when you start oolite, i'm not sure how long you have to hold it down for but i always keep it pressed untill the spinning cobra comes up on the screen.
You'll have to clear out the cache everytime you edit a .plist or change a texture, shader or model file in your oxp, but i don't think you need to if you add or remove a whole new oxp folder from your Addons folder.

Wiki pages · Post by **Thargoid** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:34 pm

What the man sez again

In Windows if you hold down shift when you run the bat file, it's usually enough to keep it pressed until the main game window appears (although you can keep it pressed until the spinning cobbie appears in that window if you want to be sure).

Scarecrow · Post by **Scarecrow** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:37 pm

Bingo, bango, bongo! Sorted!

At first, it started and then shut down again but I re-exported and converted my dat with a texture applied and it worked perfectly!

Cheers all. There will now be a short delay whilst I build a ship

Crow

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:23 am

nvm... I´m tired.----. didn´t see the 3 pages replies..

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:19 am

Scarecrow wrote:
PS - Griff, whereabouts are you? I was a Barry boy originally - now living in Coventry.

I'm near Aberaeron, Ceredigion - total farmer zone!

Website · Post by **DaddyHoggy** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:46 am

Griff wrote:
I'm near Aberaeron, Ceredigion

Bless you - so, where did you say you lived?

Scarecrow · Post by **Scarecrow** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:22 pm

I've double checked those volumes I posted on page 1 and they're all either spot on accurate or close enough that it makes no discernable difference. The Buoy, Anaconda and Cobra 3 really are that size!

Crow

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:04 pm

Scarecrow wrote:
I've double checked those volumes I posted on page 1 and they're all either spot on accurate or close enough that it makes no discernable difference. The Buoy, Anaconda and Cobra 3 really are that size!

Yes, and this fact has been debated here on the board (and elsewhere) dozens of times. If you want the very short version: the most likely explanation for the discrepancy is that B&B copied a wrong number from a sheet of paper (misread a '1' for a '7') back in 1983 (or whenever they 'constructed' the Anaconda).

Simon B · Post by **Simon B** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:46 pm

On his computer it's all in caps. The old DOS cli wasn't case sensitive, but the new one IIRC is.

Those of us born to GUIs forget what it was like learning to type all over again. Those of us old enough to remember system basic never had the problem.

The best place for the scripts is the source code, which also has all the models in whatever format the last developer used as source. AFAIK the latest uses .mesh files, which you may be able to use directly - though it's usually handier to use wavefront files.

I've managed to elicit a lot of assistance and the occasional bit of blatant spoon-feeding myself ... see:

For Materials and Shaders - generic code fragments - see for eg.
Arachnid and Waka Ships

The Waka Ships represent my attempt at exactly what you are trying. (Actually the second.) While the Fancy Classics also mentioned is a formal attempt to involve the community in designing a complete and compatible replacement set. (The oxps for them also contain blank textures and .obj files to encourage participation - hint hint.)

Also useful are Pimp My Cobra, and the expansion pack forum stickies.

Those threads also link to other useful threads and info.

BTW: You'll find alternate vipers in some OXPs - also I did a Viper III. It's something lots of people seem to attempt, but there is general trouble beating the aesthetics of the classic model.

I've added the Namu from wakapiko.oxp to the GalCops - sometimes they patrol in threes!

BTW: Long time readers will have noticed that the classic ships are not to scale. The cobra mk3 is about the biggest model for eg. and that's not the only one. My original replacement set was motivated by attempting to make the models consistent.

Simon B · Post by **Simon B** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:28 pm

wackyman465 wrote:
Well I don't understand any of this modelmaking stuff, but thanks for doing the scale! I've always wondered what size Oolite ships are. I'm now surprised that the Anaconda carries 750t, but is approx. the same size as a CMKIII!

It's simple matter to open the resources/models folder and examine the dat files in a text editor. The sizes of the models is given right at the top.

It is very difficult to judge scale in space, even when two ships are right next to each other.

Specifically -
Anaconda is basically a teardrop shape, if it were any fatter, it wouldn't fit in the docking slit. The cargo cap is a famous typo - but that doesn't explain the others. This is part of why the neoanaconda is longer and wider than the classic.

Boa and python models are about the same size - but boa is quite a bit fatter. I flattened it for the neoboa, so I had to make it longer.

All the fighters are about the same size - what matters is that they are small next to the big ships.

The cobra3 dimensions are suspiciously double the cobra1 (giving roughly 8x volume and only double cargo.), and also-suspiciously a close fit for the docking slit. But that's the principal player ship - probably intended to be the only one when first conceived. Docking is a lot less of a challenge in a smaller ship.

Cargo containers are almost the same size as some ships - watch scooping from the outside sometime. If you actually made them 1T each (at H2O dencity, thats a cubic meter) they'd be too small to see. The game has to be playable after all.

That's the reason for most discrepancies - Elite, and thus Oolite, sacrifices reality (most post-aristotle physics for eg) in favour of having a fun game.

Cmdr Wyvern · Post by **Cmdr Wyvern** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:40 pm

For more nitpickery, stations aren't to scale.
To house berthing for all those ships, repair/upgrade facilities, police HQ, administration, warehouses for trade goods, ect, I would expect stations to be much larger than they are.
Like Dr. Who's TARDIS, stations have far larger interior volume than their size could possibly contain.

Scarecrow · Post by **Scarecrow** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:07 pm

Okay, here's my first pass but I'm not entirely happy with it yet. It's a bit... 'ordinary'.

This is an attempt to keep the delta shape of the original, but I'm sorely tempted to do something a bit more like this:

or this:

Crow

Simon B · Post by **Simon B** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:51 pm

Yike!

How many separate models in there? It will be very interesting to see if anything that ambitious will actually play.

I also don't know how to do transparency in Oolite - so that canopy may end up opaque.