Galactic Navy OXP - Mission Ideas Needed

[TGHC]

I wouldn't woryy about it, there is always an attempt to realism in Oolite and its OXP's, but at the end of the day as Greavesy would say, "It's only a game"

[Roberto]

@TGHC
Wise words It's nice if things are broadly compatible (in my mind at least!), but there are always going to be discrepancies.

@Disembodied
Alas, history suggests they will indeed try lumbering over here - rather successfully, judging by the results I'd like to think there's some kind of ruthless Palpatine-like intelligence behind it all - maybe Duval himself, or maybe the Dark Wheel, secretly pulling the strings within all three governments... Though why they would want GalCop to fail, I'm not entirely sure

[Captain Hesperus]

@TGHC
Wise words It's nice if things are broadly compatible (in my mind at least!), but there are always going to be discrepancies.

Reminds me of a quote: History is written by the victors.

It's true to say that if the Imps and Feds have the advantage in tech levels, the GalCop has the advantage of sheer weight of numbers. Every single licenced pilot in GalCop space is an Galactic Navy Reservist, who can be called to active duty almost instantaneously (and be equipped with Gal-Drives as required) to assist the defence of Galactic Chart One at the orders of the higher echelons of GalCop administration. I think that threat is enough to deter an all-out war between the 'Super-powers'.

As to the down-fall of GalCop, I think the combination of the wormholes collapsing, poor crisis management of GalCop and the state of utter disrepair after the Thargoid War were the nails in GalCop's coffin. Maybe Matt's New Navy became a precursor of INRA, sitting in the dark expanses between the inhabited worlds and waiting for their chance to strike....

It's perhaps unfortunate that B&B didn't expand on the 'Universe of Elite' at the outset and that the good Mr. Braben did not include much in the way of 'back-story' to the Elite era in F:E2. But I have to admit, I take Selezen's viewpoint as canon as much as Robert Holdstock or the 'SoLotF' authors.

Captain Hesperus

[matt634]

Alright, I've finished, for the most part updating the Wiki to match the new additions from my OXP. I edited the Galactic Navy page to include the new info and links. I didn't delete anything, just added, linked and reorganized a bit. I saved a copy of the original code in case anyone thinks it utter blasphemy.

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Galactic_Navy

[Rxke]

Congratulations on a job well done!

[Commander McLane]

I was always wondering what the Imperial Navy did in GalCop space, and never could explain it for myself. So could perhaps anybody shed some more light on the Constricor/Thargoid Plans-issue?

And second: What is now the commOonity's opinion about the multiplied military presence of the Galactic Navy, brought to us by this OXP? I still think it contradicts to some extent Selezen's position quoted by Roberto. And I also hold this to be quite canonical. This is what all my muttering is about right from the start.

GalCop forces are stretched pretty thin - the Navy is primarily involved with Thargoid incursions, but there are some units that patrol disputed systems that are in the area of space also occupied by the Empire. In these areas there is also a huge police presence. Thargoid fronts are bolstered by reserve units (civilian pilots in active military service) but the line is fine. When the Thargoids torn up the heat, GalCop finds itself really stretched and has no option but to appeal for aid to the other two main powers in the area. Internal politics in GalCop don't help much (as some of my future stories will highlight) and that's what ultimately leads to GalCop's collapse.

[Disembodied]

Alas, history suggests they will indeed try lumbering over here - rather successfully, judging by the results I'd like to think there's some kind of ruthless Palpatine-like intelligence behind it all - maybe Duval himself, or maybe the Dark Wheel, secretly pulling the strings within all three governments... Though why they would want GalCop to fail, I'm not entirely sure

Well, maybe they will... although maybe also they'll be less successful than people might think. The whole "wormhole collapse" thing: do we know what this actually means? is it a physical collapse, or a political one? Maybe all that happens is that the Imps or Feds get control over the mouth of the wormhole leading into Oolite's Galaxy 1 -- effectively buggering up the whole Oolite system of intergalactic (well, inter-sector) communication since, with no way to go all the way round, making galactic hyperjumps will just increasingly bottle the Oolite population up in the top-end galaxies. But is this a permanent situation? Maybe the pressure will eventually force the overcrowded Galaxy 8 into an invasion of the occupied territories in Galaxy 1, retaking the wormhole mouth and re-establishing the Co-Operative (or something aspiring to it, or at least pretending to be it). Or maybe someone will invent the elusive "Backwards Galactic Hyperdrive", allowing the Oolite worlds to continue on inside 7 "galaxies", still proud and free and multi-species.

The future is unwritten. And even where it *is* written, it can still be fiddled with! And then there's always "and after that...".

As to grand conspiracies... I don't know if we need them. Ordinary cupidity and stupidity and "it seemed like a good idea at the time" are usually all you need to flip one state of chaotic equilibrium into another! (This is known in the trade as the "asshole theory" of history .)

[Commander McLane]

Hmmm, in my understanding it's not the wormhole leading to Galaxy 1 that collapses, but the one leading from Galaxy 1 to Galaxy 2.

Or perhaps even both (all?) of them. Perhaps some kind of catastrophy leads to the emission of a radiation that disturbs wormholes on a sub-atomar level, somehow dissolving the woven fabric of the Ooniverse?

*****

And another word in the other strain of discussion. What I always particularly liked about GalCop is its easyness. A very friendly, civil, low-profile (I insist on that), non-intervening, non-forcible (meaning also non-military) way of connecting worlds for the better well-being of all. Just that. In my view it's something like the anti-blueprint to an Empire (Achenar) or a Federation (Earth). And I think it's a pity that of all alternatives it is this one which is slaughtered on the altar of history (and thargoid invasion)!

[Roberto]

@Capt H

It's true to say that if the Imps and Feds have the advantage in tech levels...

This may well be true, but are you basing this on anything other than Selezen's sentence about Seldar's tech being inferior to that of the Imperial Navy (and maybe only according to the Imperial Navy)? I wasn't aware this was an established "fact"

Maybe Matt's New Navy became a precursor of INRA, sitting in the dark expanses between the inhabited worlds and waiting for their chance to strike....

I like the general idea of rogue elements in the Navy breaking away in the aftermath of the Thargoid war - but I would suggest a note of caution. I don't think the Navy could be strong enough by this point to be *that* much of a factor. Selezen's timeline tells us that in 3149, "GalCop suffers massive losses in Thargoid attacks". I doubt they could rebuild to anything like full strength by the end of the fighting (it seems more likely they'd suffer *further* losses). And that's another point - at the end of the war, the majority of the Navy will revert to civilian status, since (as the entry on the Wiki tells us) "The reserves make up the majority of the Naval force".

Going further into the future, we (well, those of us who adhere to Selezen's timeline!) know that in 3174, "The resources of the organisation (such as the Navy and Police forces) are auctioned to the Federation." I personally doubt there's much left by this point - if the Feds were acquiring a massive armada, I think that would be reflected in subsequent history (or at the very least, the Imps would have bid for some lots too!).

So, I would argue for a Navy that by the 3150s is something of a spent force - though crucially still too expensive relative to GalCop's income (I agree with you on the "state of utter disrepair" thing, with trade greatly reduced and entire systems reduced to ashes). By this stage GalCop could be spending billions on pensions (or simply back pay) for vets/widows, too-little-too-late R&D and servicing debt. This leads us logically to 3162: "GalCop's economy begins to collapse".

And I think that's the crux of the matter really - I see GalCop's demise (whatever the contributing factors) as primarily an economic one. Its greatest strength (lack of interference in the affairs of its member worlds, thus attracting lots of members) turns out to be its greatest weakness - since it can't interfere in its members' affairs, it can't raise the cash it needs to survive. The Feds/Imps, centrally organised, offer stability, military strength and funds for renewal, so those GalCop worlds left relatively intact after the war (the loss of some of them would go some way to explaining the lack of former GalCop worlds on the Frontier map) will likely defect to one side or the other - with no significant military force to prevent them from doing so.

All IMO, reading in between the lines of Selezen's stuff

@Commander McLane
Yes, I wouldn't expect to see Navy fleets in regular space very often… I guess you would sometimes, though, and that many (if not most) sectors would have some kind of permanent base, even if that's not where the SecCom is likely to be...

I'm kind of torn on this one. I guess my suggestion would be to modify the OXP so you only sometimes encounter these fleets at the SecCom "home worlds". I'd imagine that most of the time, the Navy's capital ships would be deployed on the front line (i.e. interstellar space), and you'd be more likely to see, say, a squadron of reserves (most of whom will be flying their own, non-military ships) being trained in ordinary system space.

[Roberto]

@Disembodied

The whole "wormhole collapse" thing: do we know what this actually means? is it a physical collapse, or a political one?

I interpret it as a physical collapse, but you're right - we don't know what this means. It could be that someone is behind it in some way, or it could just be the result of some natural phenomenon...

As to grand conspiracies... I don't know if we need them.

You're right - we don't need them. But they are rather fun And to my mind, the sudden and almost total downfall of a dominant, 600-year-old (or thereabouts) civilisation within the space of about 20 years is, to say the least, suspicious...

@Commander McLane
GalCop has its advantages, but the UN analogy is apt - how effective has the UN's "non-intervention" been in ensuring the "better well-being of all"? How effective has GalCop been in improving the lives of those on Anarchy/Feudal worlds? Besides, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and declare that the Empire and Federation are cooler (They're both so deliciously sinister - though I've never been fond of the Feds' stupid military-ranking system!)

You can take comfort, though, in the knowledge that another "good" power (the Alliance) will arise in the 33rd century...

[matt634]

A bit of perspective,

While my OXP does increase the strength of the Navy, all this discussion of new ships, stations, 112 SecComs... may have overstated its real impact on the Ooniverse.

A Commander has a little more than 5% chance of running into a SecCom system. My script also gives a 5% chance of encountering a Carrier Group. Unless you happen to live on a SecCom planet or constantly misjump - running into the Navy is still a rare occurrence. I really feel that this OXP just brings into fruition the previously held ideas regarding Galcop and its Galactic Navy. It had one, large enough to battle the Thargoid invasion, and it obviously required some amount of military infrastructure to carry out its mission.

[Roberto]

Those odds some pretty reasonable to me.

[TGHC]

seems fine to me too, in fact I've always thought that the cops/navy were generally a bit thin on the ground. Apart from that if you are a fine upstanding law abiding citizen like me... cough.... then it shouldn't make very much difference.

Well done Matt634.

[Captain Hesperus]

I agree, it's fair that every jump into every system will not result in seeing Matt's Navy ships.

And besides, with the Thargoids beefing up their invasion fleets (thank you, Axerack_Heretic!), it's quite likely that even this new influx of Naval ships, their eventual reduction to sub-atomic particles in battle and some quite likely over-enthusiastic reports by GalMil officers requesting *more* ships to combat the Thargoids may result in, as previously mentioned, a big money pit being opened. Into this GalCop feverishly pours vast sums of Credits (possibly devaluing the GalCop currency in the long run) only to see negligable returns thus begining the inevitable and inexorable slide to economic collapse.

Conclusion?
Matt's new ships and SecComs are the beginning of the end for GalCop.

Captain Hesperus

[matt634]

"Her Majesty's Imperial Navy" being the organization behind the Constrictor/Thargoid Plans missions.

I was always wondering what the Imperial Navy did in GalCop space, and never could explain it for myself. So could perhaps anybody shed some more light on the Constricor/Thargoid Plans-issue?

In playing the game and writing this OXP I had always assumed, like Roberto, that the Constrictor/Thargoid Plans mission was for the Galactic Navy. It wasn't until after researching for this thread that I discovered the Imperial Navy discrepancy. This seems to be a conflict, and I've only made it more incomprehensible by placing a SecCom Station at Xeer (thinking it was home to a Galactic not Imperial Navy Shipyard).

As a solution, I could in my OXP change the missiontext for these two missions to say "Galactic Navy" rather than "Her Majesty's Imperial Navy." It would be small, simple change that would have HUGE implications to the story line. I'm editing the original files on my computer to affect this change, but I would need a strong showing of support to include it in an OXP - changes to native missions seem almost out of bounds.