Oolite Bulletins

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 7:43 am

Oops!

We do know that the Manual was mostly written by Holdstock.

But, how do we handwave this sort of thing away?

Meant to answer this ages ago...

Whether or not one subscribes to the Disembodied/Traveller tech level associations, the fact that two such new fangled fancy ships should be manufactured in relatively low tech systems seems odd.

The cobra one sticks out a mile and struck me as questionable even when I first read it as a pre-teen.

The way to line this up with the lore as written IMHO would be to accept that the station itself will have a minimum tech level of (for arguments sake) 10.

The planets themselves could be any tech level and that will influence their inhabitants interest, demand and manufacturing of equipment, thereby influencing the shipyard supplies. The very highest tech level world's may even influence the building of the station itself (thus the dodec and ico stations).

To address the problem you highlighted this would require true shipyards that actually manufacture ships at the station. Lave's low tech (planet, not station) may then even be the excuse for why the default MkIII is provided with such bare bones equipment (unusual for an otherwise high end machine). A low tech world would pull in few of the high tech equipment items and so they wouldn't be for sale.

Following that line of thinking, a systems tech level wouldn't influence which ships are for sale as much as which items of equipment would be expected as standard.

Rich systems (of which Lave is one IIRC) could meet all of the manufacturing costs for whichever ship they wished to manufacture but would meet low demand from the planets inhabitants for equipment fitting.

Therefore:

System tech level would determine standard fittings
System wealth would determine ship availability

Are Rolls Royce Phantom's manufactured in Dubai? It hardly matters. But then Reorte is poor, so figure that one out...

Meanwhile Lave should probably always have the (bare bones) mkIII for sale. Perhaps Reorte should no longer have the Mamba for sale if its poverty where due to some recent collapse (I'm clutching...)

Ships are for sale not where they're manufactured...but perhaps where they were previously sold, with a minor nod to how well they can be refurbished there.
Manufacturing shipyards are a really big deal and are likely at few systems. There only needs to be one in a 10 Light-Year radius to serve the area with new ships. The rest of the ships travel to there.

Switeck wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:11 am

Ships are for sale not where they're manufactured...but perhaps where they were previously sold, with a minor nod to how well they can be refurbished there.

Well, not just where they are manufactured...

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 8:35 am

Are Rolls Royce Phantom's manufactured in Dubai? It hardly matters.

Point being that not only could Lave's wealth, rather than tech, enable them to fund the shipyard (theoretical handwavery of course) but that a ships availability could be more reasonably available based on system wealth rather than system tech - whether ships are built there or not.

It could be the case that the tech required to produce the ships is relatively low (beyond importing a hyper drive I suspect) compared to all of the gizmos and gadgets that can be installed. Certainly a stock mkIII is markedly below a fully kitted one in terms of performance.

Of course if you can import/fund a shipyard then why not do the same with the equipment? Perhaps because the wealthy new owner of a mkIII (with likely that much cash to spend again) is a solitary flight from Leesti/Zaonce (both of which were very safe in elite) where a new vessel could be kitted out to significant capability.

In order to do this, the fictional wealthy pilot needs a good ship to be available at Lave, the rest they can do themselves.

Switeck wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:11 am

Manufacturing shipyards are a really big deal and are likely at few systems. There only needs to be one in a 10 Light-Year radius to serve the area with new ships. The rest of the ships travel to there.

Maybe even less than that, especially if we're going beyong 7LY. Its possible that Lave and Reorte are remarkable for their (true) shipyards and it's not about their tech level but rather their placement/histories. Maybe the shipyard was established their long ago to supply the much needed tech facilities to service that system.

A shipyard that existed as an alternative station might be interesting; some great orbiting workshop, perhaps something like this.

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 9:33 am

Its possible that Lave and Reorte are remarkable for their (true) shipyards and it's not about their tech level but rather their placement/histories. Maybe the shipyard was established their long ago to supply the much needed tech facilities to service that system.

And much like today, "Made in USA" really only means (final assembly) assembled in USA, with most of the high-tech parts coming from elsewhere. Thus the slowdowns and shutdowns of car/truck assembly lines lately over something called "chips" (read: not made here).

So shipyards need not be high-tech, only they need to be able to import what they need. Lave's TL is high enough probably for that.

Switeck wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 12:36 pm

And much like today...

Good example.

If we handwave for long enough then things often start to make 'sense'

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 7:43 am

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:10 pm

2) Now let's add in Elite/Oolite information:

Information from the Vanilla Game:
...
TL 6 orbital stations sell Fuel Scoops. Multi-Targeting Systems & Passenger Berths are new, after Elite
...

Lave: TL5! - no fuel scoops or passenger berths available (Elite), "WWI technology" spelled out above!
Government: Dictatorship, Economy: Rich Agricultural, Population: 2.5 Billion (Human Colonials)

Cobra Mk.III (The Space Traders Flight Training Manual, p56) - built at Lave

We do know that the Manual was mostly written by Holdstock.

But, how do we handwave this sort of thing away?

Hi there, I am new to this forum and am shuttling between Zaonce (TechL 12) and Isinor (TechL 6), trading Liquors and Computers etc, just to build up my cash.

I would like to take on a passenger mission, and I see that Tech Level 6 systems have a Passenger Berth for sale, but I notice that both of these systems (TechL 6 and above) do not have them for sale.

https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Passe ... ailability

I have added some addons / expansion packs, and have bought a Large Cargo Bay. Could any of this cause a clash preventing the pessenger bay from being seen?

Any guidance would be welcome. Thanks

Ethan-J wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:28 pm

Hi there, I am new to this forum and am shuttling between Zaonce (TechL 12) and Isinor (TechL 6), trading Liquors and Computers etc, just to build up my cash.

I would like to take on a passenger mission, and I see that Tech Level 6 systems have a Passenger Berth for sale, but I notice that both of these systems (TechL 6 and above) do not have them for sale.

https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Passe ... ailability

I have added some addons / expansion packs, and have bought a Large Cargo Bay. Could any of this cause a clash preventing the passenger bay from being seen?

Any guidance would be welcome. Thanks

Others, especially Switeck, will know more, but might your cargo bay be too full when you are trying to buy the passenger berth?

And have you seen phkb's Enhanced Passenger Contracts - with passengers who are awkward and bothersome!

Oh... and here's some advice!

Tip: parcel contracts require no deposit, and occupy no cargo space, so you can trade as you go.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:41 pm

... but might your cargo bay be too full when you are trying to buy the passenger berth?

I emptied my cargo and it appeared. Thanks.

It takes up 5 cargo.

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 8:35 am

Therefore:

System tech level would determine standard fittings
System wealth would determine ship availability

I am inclined to agree with this distinction. This is also extremely interesting and relevant to my current tweaking interests. Let's say some poor sap is going over every equipment item for tech level appropriateness, the exact meaning of "tech level" becomes very important.

[EDIT] Triple paragraph removed because it was answered in Cholmondely's first post. Either handwaive is going to have to win the day here, or the lore has just got to be wrong.