Re: MasterClass: How to OXP (updating SoThisTC)
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:06 am
Tweaked.
Docked.
Docked.
For information and discussion about Oolite.
https://bb.oolite.space/
Definitely a new market, but the big question is, how will it differ from the main market? If it follows the main market, then there's little to no profit in zipping between the Sothis and the main station. In that case we're basically expanding the capacity of the main station market. Game wise that makes sense, since Sothis is positioned quite close to the main station and one might assume that the prices would converge.
According to the statistics, the Sothis is considerably larger than a Coriolis/Ico/Dodo (1.5km/side instead of 1km/side). If the market is minute, and there is no shipyard, what is all that extra space used for?spara wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:11 amDefinitely a new market, but the big question is, how will it differ from the main market? If it follows the main market, then there's little to no profit in zipping between the Sothis and the main station. In that case we're basically expanding the capacity of the main station market. Game wise that makes sense, since Sothis is positioned quite close to the main station and one might assume that the prices would converge.
If the bulk market is wildly different then we're sort of making a cheat.
What is the purpose of the Trade Center? In my original vision, it was a business center with a tweaked speciality cargo market from the new cargoes oxp. Bulk market is for others.
One possibility is to create a small market (low capacity) with some hopefully interesting differences. If you're lucky, you could get a nice price for your luxuries, but the station would only buy 7 units. That would give some flavour and an incentive to visit the station, but would not break game economy. At least not a lot .
Ship production ? Could create a market slightly higher for the oolite-shipyard group, include a shipyard exclusively selling ships produced there and park some of this offers out of the station, ready to get picked up.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:06 amAccording to the statistics, the Sothis is considerably larger than a Coriolis/Ico/Dodo (1.5km/side instead of 1km/side). If the market is minute, and there is no shipyard, what is all that extra space used for?
Then there would be slightly higher demand for alloys, machinery & computers for ship production.montana05 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:19 amShip production ? Could create a market slightly higher for the oolite-shipyard group, include a shipyard exclusively selling ships produced there and park some of this offers out of the station, ready to get picked up.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:06 amAccording to the statistics, the Sothis is considerably larger than a Coriolis/Ico/Dodo (1.5km/side instead of 1km/side). If the market is minute, and there is no shipyard, what is all that extra space used for?
For a large station close to the main station factories would come to my mind. Ship production was an idea to make the location interesting. Offering only some ships but cheaper than at other locations make it worth to visit. However, including only my first ideas would require some additional lessons, so the decision how to proceed is with Master spara.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:27 amThen there would be slightly higher demand for alloys, machinery & computers for ship production.montana05 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:19 amShip production ? Could create a market slightly higher for the oolite-shipyard group, include a shipyard exclusively selling ships produced there and park some of this offers out of the station, ready to get picked up.Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:06 amAccording to the statistics, the Sothis is considerably larger than a Coriolis/Ico/Dodo (1.5km/side instead of 1km/side). If the market is minute, and there is no shipyard, what is all that extra space used for?
Unsure whether totally raw unprocessed minerals & radioactives (are they raw & unprocessed) would also be in demand. It would make sense to have factories processing such things in orbit.
Would we need to increase the size of the docking bay? Or introduce another (insect queens only!)?
I am aware it's going to far but depending on the system economy/tech level different ships could be offered. Focus on freighters in average and on luxury ships in rich systems for example. The logic is basically the same just some additional modifications would be required.spara wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:29 amThe idea of expanding the ship-market is an interesting one. With the current version of Oolite it's possible to tamper with the shipyard. Previously the shipyard just was or wasn't. Maybe there could be a wide selection of ships suitable for interstellar cargo transport available from Sothises? Like Pythons and Boas. Or we could include some ridiculously expensive or fancy ships (like the revised version of SuperCobra from Random Hits or Teretrurus or Imperial trader/courier) to be sold only in Sothises.
All in all Sothis station is huge and there should be some in-game justification for that. Adding a large market to a system is not a good idea because of the game balance. After we've fixed the market, it's of course totally possible to change the market capacity to what ever people want in their own games. A large market should not be a default though.
The game already has a "business" classification for certain goods. I think we'll start with that. We'll create a market with emphasis on those and think about the shipyard later. Less is usually more, so maybe the idea of a shipyard focusing on cargo ships is the most reasonable.
I wish I could take any credit on those. With RandomHits, I just upgraded the OXP to the current standards and adopted the OXP for maintenance. I think it's most likely LittleBear you need to thank for the descriptions, that sort of things seem to be his forte.
If a list of useful annotated .oxp's for dark-siders could be compiled, I could easily integrate it into our wiki.spara wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:53 amI wish I could take any credit on those. With RandomHits, I just upgraded the OXP to the current standards and adopted the OXP for maintenance. I think it's most likely LittleBear you need to thank for the descriptions, that sort of things seem to be his forte.
Pretty difficult to say, it depends on what you are looking for and how deep is your knowledge before. The following list is my personally choice, no offense meant, and I am happy to correct myself in case I made a mistake:Cholmondely wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:55 amIf a list of useful annotated .oxp's for dark-siders could be compiled, I could easily integrate it into our wiki.
// market="nestmarket"
. That most likely means that the shipdata.plist of this OXP was originally constructed on top of another oxp by the same author: Wasps. Wasps actually has that exact same line, but active.Code: Select all
market_capacity = 15;
market_definition = (
{
"type" = "class";
"name" = "oolite-business";
"price_multiplier" = 1.2;
"price_randomiser" = 0.3;
"quantity_multiplier" = 0.7;
"quantity_randomiser" = 0.2;
},
{
"type" = "default";
"capacity" = 0;
}
);
market_monitored = yes;
Sorry to interrupt, promised my last statement for today. When it comes to override the alphabetic order (at least with Windows) is critical. An override starting with "a" will be (again) overridden by an similar override starting with "z" for example. This is based on experience facing problems in the past where I lost (a lot) time to find out why my override didn't work as intended.spara wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:19 pmOolite works so that it first reads all definitions from all shipdata.plist files around. There's one in the core game resources and up to one in every oxp. After that Oolite reads all the definitions in shipdata-overrides.plist files on top of the previously read definitions. This allows us to create overriding oxps. We can override core definitions, but also other oxps if needed.
Alphabetical load order might work in Windows, but not in Linux or OSx. If there are multiple oxps trying to override the same whatever, then that must be dealt in some other fashion like using conflicts in the manager. One trick that can be used, if one is making local overrides, is the fact that oxz:s installed with the manager are read before oxps in the AddOns-folder.montana05 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:53 pmSorry to interrupt, promised my last statement for today. When it comes to override the alphabetic order (at least with Windows) is critical. An override starting with "a" will be (again) overridden by an similar override starting with "z" for example. This is based on experience facing problems in the past where I lost (a lot) time to find out why my override didn't work as intended.spara wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:19 pmOolite works so that it first reads all definitions from all shipdata.plist files around. There's one in the core game resources and up to one in every oxp. After that Oolite reads all the definitions in shipdata-overrides.plist files on top of the previously read definitions. This allows us to create overriding oxps. We can override core definitions, but also other oxps if needed.
1) So if an .oxp is loaded in the Managed AddOns folder it will load first? Or does it need to be an .oxz?spara wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:00 pmAlphabetical load order might work in Windows, but not in Linux or OSx. If there are multiple oxps trying to override the same whatever, then that must be dealt in some other fashion like using conflicts in the manager. One trick that can be used, if one is making local overrides, is the fact that oxz:s installed with the manager are read before oxps in the AddOns-folder.montana05 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:53 pmSorry to interrupt, promised my last statement for today. When it comes to override the alphabetic order (at least with Windows) is critical. An override starting with "a" will be (again) overridden by an similar override starting with "z" for example. This is based on experience facing problems in the past where I lost (a lot) time to find out why my override didn't work as intended.spara wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:19 pmOolite works so that it first reads all definitions from all shipdata.plist files around. There's one in the core game resources and up to one in every oxp. After that Oolite reads all the definitions in shipdata-overrides.plist files on top of the previously read definitions. This allows us to create overriding oxps. We can override core definitions, but also other oxps if needed.