Oolite Bulletins

Disembodied wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:30 pm

They're implacably hostile and - from an analysis of their attempts to communicate - apparently insane.

<cachinnates>

Cody wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:37 pm

Disembodied wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:30 pm

They're implacably hostile and - from an analysis of their attempts to communicate - apparently insane.

<cachinnates>

Sorry - are we back talking about politicians again?

Disembodied wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:30 pm

Reval wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:08 pm

However, I did notice references to 'culture' there. Again, within a culture I really could go with the argument, but... are we saying that the AIs would not begin to evolve as variously as the 'wet' once did? (ie. some good, some bad, some in-between, across the whole gamut...)

The Co-operative can be viewed as a single culture, in basic technological terms at least. We all share the same reactionless ship-drive and witchspace technology. The more advanced planets have either experienced and survived, or witnessed the aftermath of, a runaway electronic singularity, and they're not prepared to allow the same catastrophe to happen on less developed worlds. Bad for business, at the very least.

Electronic AI is not like organic intelligence; there is a deterministic, relentless, and exponential logic to its evolution. And there are different outcomes: it's just that none of them are good outcomes for the biological species which have to live through them. An egg might bring forth a song-thrush or an alligator - but either way, the process is undeniably rough on the egg.

There is one species we know of which does make extensive use of robots: the Thargoids. They're implacably hostile and - from an analysis of their attempts to communicate - apparently insane.

Nicely countered. Far be it from me to argue with canon (or with arguments from canon for that matter). Thargoids - 'species', again - indeed appear to humans and frogoids etc as utterly bonkers - but who are we to judge them? We can't begin to understand their motives and internal imperatives - all we can do is suffer their destructive irrationality. But they are just one species among a multitude of species (Wagar's Finis) And the essence of the Eight Charts is infinite variety...

In sum, I don't believe we can generalize to quite the extent you have in your thesis, or apply arguments from isolated examples to the totality.

Just my opinion, of course: I concede that canon is canon and not to be tampered with.

Reval wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:01 pm

Just my opinion, of course: I concede that canon is canon and not to be tampered with.

Personally, I think that what is and what is not canon is entirely up to you! It all exists in our heads: I say, make it up as you go along, and go with whatever canon suits your own preferences. Oolite is open and moddable and capable of sustaining multiple interpretations. Me, I like the fictional possibilities of a downbeat universe: it's grimy and grotty, and life is cheap. You have to get by on your wits and your luck; muscle and brain are more important than buttons and blinking lights. A good old-fashioned future.

(Which is not to say I would want to live there. If I'm picking a fictional universe to live in, I'm opting to be a citizen of the Culture.)

We are supposed to be discussing Nordic Keyboards. We stuck with it for a grand total of a patently pathetic two posts. Then we diverted to Spanish & French Keyboards, then we red-herringed onto the roll vs yaw crusades - all by the bottom of the first page - and are now firmly ensconced in the Disembodied morass of squishy computers. Impressive.

Disembodied wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:52 am

Our multi-species society, held in loose alliance within the Co-operative, has managed to develop organic computation: it's slower and squishier, but every computer-node has a short and finite lifespan, and is guaranteed not to gallop away over the eschatological horizon.

These organic brainlets are what we call "computers".

This perfectly explains my experience last week. There I was mooching about in Stranger's World, trying to try out his In-System Cargo Delivery OXP. Having bought the necessary gubbins for planetary landings (required by the Mighty Masters of the Mission) I undertook my very first mission, to fly to Ensoreus V to deliver 5 tonnes of something or other urgently needed there. So I hop into the old crate, tell Jeeves to make tracks, and we zip out of the orbital.

Benedict sets the ASC for Ensoreus V, but ... guess what ... we've also got one of Norby's Telescopes on board! When we sight Ensoreus V on the viewscreen, the viewscreen tells us that we're looking at Ensoreus IV! And when we try and locate Ensoreus V on the viewscreen, the ASC tells us that it is Ensoreus VI! Similar high jinks with a couple of the other planets. Benedict scratches his head and awaits advice.

So, over a rather stiff gin and tonic, I reach the decision to set course for the Compass's Ensoreus V rather than Norby's Ensoreus V. This was based on the premise that the ASC is a more fundamental piece of kit (optional regular kit - rather than optional optional kit), and so more likely to be correct (Bayesian probability, I think they call it).

After a lo-o-o-o-o-ong period whizzing through space (trammelled only by Dredgers: Stranger's World, ... remember?), we made it to Ensoreus V. Nothing. Not a sausage. Not even a satellite! About to waltz over to Ensoreus IV on the off-chance, I remembered the peremptory demand of the MMMs to buy landing gear.

And this is, of course, Strangers World. The joys of the Hard Way. Takes fuel to do anything - even to blow your own nose. Do we have enough distilled essence of beetle-juice to make it over to Ensoreus IV or will we turn into pumpkins en-route?

So, another executive decision (ghastly bourgeouis things). We approach for planetary landing, unsure that there is even anybody there. Well, half way down, it turned out that there was. And it was Ensoreus V, after all (at least, they said so). We could even jolly well refuel!

Conclusion.

Norby's organic brainlets are decidedly squishier than Aegidian/Ahruman/_a_c's are. Presumably a function of the vats of the planet that his come from. Which one do you reckon that it is? One infested with edible poets, perhaps?

Oh to be on Cequququ now the wolf hunting season has started!