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Re: A question of lore
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:19 am
by GearsNSuch
Cody wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:19 pm
Another question: witchpoint beacons are in the core game, so they're a thing. What exactly is their purpose? Are they simply markers, or are they perhaps needed for incoming ships to lock onto - no witchpoint beacon, no inbound traffic?
The witchdrive seems to be able to access any area within 7ly outside of a gravity well. It doesn’t seem to rely upon preexisting wormholes or hyperlanes, so I don’t think they’re exit markers.
The few seconds of necessary level flying before a jump could indicate that the craft is locking on to a beacon’s signal. The transmission would still persist for years after a beacon’s destruction due to signal lag, justifying ships still being able to jump in with no beacon.
I imagine that in the chaotic years before the rise of GalCop, ships manually calculated this exit position, leading to a greater number of misjumps.
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:36 am
by Cody
So how does this sound: a ship can jump into a system regardless, but without a witchpoint beacon to lock onto, the location of the point of entry is unpredictable. It could be close to the space lane/station, it could be way out in deep space, it could be too close to the planet, it could even be deep within the star's corona. In other words, it's simply too risky if there's no witchpoint beacon!
A planet is ravaged by a mutated virus, and supplies of a new vaccine are urgently needed. Unfortunately, the gooks have destroyed the witchpoint beacon. Your mission, should you accept it, is to deliver that vaccine come hell or high water!
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:40 pm
by Cholmondely
Cody wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:19 pm
Another question: witchpoint beacons are in the core game, so they're a thing. What exactly is their purpose? Are they simply markers, or are they perhaps needed for incoming ships to lock onto - no witchpoint beacon, no inbound traffic?
another_commander wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:02 pm
You know, it's probably easy to find out what happens (no time to go browsing the code for it, sorry): exit witchspace to a new system, destroy the beacon and stand-by. Do ships still arrive in the area? If yes, then the beacon is just a marker, if no, then it is a requirement for exit position lock.
Just came across this:
Pirate Ambushes oxp: Introduces a new tactic for pirates in lower-government systems- Hijacking the Witchspace buoy and moving it to a more 'advantageous' position.
From http://deephorizonindustries.com/about_concept.html
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:49 pm
by Cody
<grins> There's some fun to be had trying to nudge buoys out of position.
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:00 am
by Cholmondely
Cody wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:19 pm
Another question: witchpoint beacons are in the core game, so they're a thing. What exactly is their purpose? Are they simply markers, or are they perhaps needed for incoming ships to lock onto - no witchpoint beacon, no inbound traffic?
Have we arrived at a definitive answer here? I'm editing the witchspace & buoy pages on our wiki and am a tad unsure what to write!
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:33 am
by Cody
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:00 amHave we arrived at a definitive answer here?
I have, yes! Don't know about the rest of you!
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:48 pm
by Disembodied
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:00 am
Have we arrived at a definitive answer here? I'm editing the witchspace & buoy pages on our wiki and am a tad unsure what to write!
You could just say something like "The location in the system where inbound traffic emerges from Witchspace is marked by a navigation buoy", and leave it at that. Certainly, in actual gameplay, the buoys have no actual effect: if you blow one up, ships will continue to arrive at that location - but there are good fictional and OXP possibilities in e.g. Cody's scenario:
Cody wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:36 am
a ship can jump into a system regardless, but without a witchpoint beacon to lock onto, the location of the point of entry is unpredictable. It could be close to the space lane/station, it could be way out in deep space, it could be too close to the planet, it could even be deep within the star's corona. In other words, it's simply too risky if there's no witchpoint beacon!
A planet is ravaged by a mutated virus, and supplies of a new vaccine are urgently needed. Unfortunately, the gooks have destroyed the witchpoint beacon. Your mission, should you accept it, is to deliver that vaccine come hell or high water!
Perhaps it takes time for the lack of a buoy to have an effect: maybe the buoy makes a dimple in the ultrastructure of the witchspace–realspace bulk, which causes inbound wormholes to open there, at a safe distance from any nearby gravity well. (I don't have to remind anyone what can happen if a wormhole opens on any sort of gravitational gradient! We've all seen the training videos.) If you destroy the buoy, though, the dimple persists: the ultrastructure is only semi-elastic, and takes time to rebound. After a few (hours/days/weeks/whatever) though the dimple will flatten out and any incoming wormholes will open anywhere in the system. Odds are good that it'll be somewhere empty: any given star system is mostly empty, after all. But you could be a long, long way from anywhere - or worse, you could roll snake eyes and pop out
really close to somewhere, triggering a full quirium cascade inside your ship.
Equally, though, someone might prefer to have a no buoy = system cut off scenario. If the locals can't replace it, then you'll have to send a buoy there sub-light, through realspace, which could take decades … this could be a good way to pop a new system into existence for the player to scout out. Or a way to snip off a star cluster from the rest of the galaxy where the only way out is through a crafty misjump.
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:13 pm
by Cholmondely
Disembodied wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:48 pm
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:00 am
Have we arrived at a definitive answer here? I'm editing the witchspace & buoy pages on our wiki and am a tad unsure what to write!
You could just say something like "The location in the system where inbound traffic emerges from Witchspace is marked by a navigation buoy", and leave it at that. Certainly, in actual gameplay, the buoys have no actual effect: if you blow one up, ships will continue to arrive at that location - but there are good fictional and OXP possibilities in e.g. Cody's scenario:
Cody wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:36 am
a ship can jump into a system regardless, but without a witchpoint beacon to lock onto, the location of the point of entry is unpredictable. It could be close to the space lane/station, it could be way out in deep space, it could be too close to the planet, it could even be deep within the star's corona. In other words, it's simply too risky if there's no witchpoint beacon!
A planet is ravaged by a mutated virus, and supplies of a new vaccine are urgently needed. Unfortunately, the gooks have destroyed the witchpoint beacon. Your mission, should you accept it, is to deliver that vaccine come hell or high water!
Perhaps it takes time for the lack of a buoy to have an effect: maybe the buoy makes a dimple in the ultrastructure of the witchspace–realspace bulk, which causes inbound wormholes to open there, at a safe distance from any nearby gravity well. (I don't have to remind anyone what can happen if a wormhole opens on any sort of gravitational gradient! We've all seen the training videos.) If you destroy the buoy, though, the dimple persists: the ultrastructure is only semi-elastic, and takes time to rebound. After a few (hours/days/weeks/whatever) though the dimple will flatten out and any incoming wormholes will open anywhere in the system. Odds are good that it'll be somewhere empty: any given star system is mostly empty, after all. But you could be a long, long way from anywhere - or worse, you could roll snake eyes and pop out
really close to somewhere, triggering a full quirium cascade inside your ship.
Equally, though, someone might prefer to have a no buoy = system cut off scenario. If the locals can't replace it, then you'll have to send a buoy there sub-light, through realspace, which could take decades … this could be a good way to pop a new system into existence for the player to scout out. Or a way to snip off a star cluster from the rest of the galaxy where the only way out is through a crafty misjump.
Very helpful, thank you.
By the way, I've incorporated your earlier comments (
Re: Species: Lobstoids, Amphiboids, Reptiles etc. Post by Disembodied » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:09 pm) in a prominent way onto the
Species,
History and
GalCop wiki pages, and hope over time to include them elsewhere as suitable.
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:55 pm
by Cody
Disembodied wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:48 pmOr a way to snip off a star cluster from the rest of the galaxy where the only way out is through a crafty misjump.
Or the only way in! Such backdoors are one-way only.
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:28 pm
by Redspear
Cody wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:36 am
So how does this sound: a ship can jump into a system regardless, but without a witchpoint beacon to lock onto, the location of the point of entry is unpredictable. It could be close to the space lane/station, it could be way out in deep space, it could be too close to the planet, it could even be deep within the star's corona. In other words, it's simply too risky if there's no witchpoint beacon!
Somewhat familiar
I'd say 
(scroll down a tad for the second one...)
There are some interesting ideas in that thread that I might wish to revisit...
Disembodied wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:48 pm
any given star system is mostly empty, after all
Nonsense! Anybody knows it's full of space!
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:10 pm
by Nite Owl
Buoys - we are all aware of
THIS.
Back in G2 there was a rash of Buoy destruction going on. All types of Buoys were being taken out on a regular basis. The above OXZ replaced the destroyed Buoys in a very short amount of time. It even provided temporary positioning of a destroyed Buoy, and a temporary name for that destroyed Buoy, until the replacement Buoy was up and running. The only drawback to the above OXZ is the lack of an update to use the new Buoy graphics. Easily overlooked during the Buoy "towing into place process" as once the Buoy is in place it will use the new graphics. Currently Handwavium it up to a Buoy's inactive versus active state. If any of you graphic gurus want to to think about updating the above OXZ to use the new Buoy graphics it would be much appreciated.
Buoyed up by the use of the word
Buoy in every sentence, wordplay can be such fun.
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:55 pm
by Cody
It's too cold to sit outside a pub, as I had planned, and I'm bored, so...
Witchspace/Hyperspace! Two opinions: transit is instantaneous, and the apparent elapsed time is the ship's clock adjusting to a different timezone; or it actually takes, for example, 16 hours to transit 4 light years (made to seem instantaneous for gameplay reasons). I favour the latter, which makes more sense to me, and also happens to be a great plot device for fiction. So...
Ships travelling in company: can they communicate with each other whilst in transit? It could be mother ships with escorts, or two or more ships sharing a wormhole, playing leap-frog to get somewhere. In the case of escorts, can escort pilots use the mother ship's facilities? I'm thinking toilets/galleys - it could be nearly 2 days. Escort fighters are usually small (Mambas, Geckos, Sidewinders), with no hyperspace capability - would they have limited facilities (tiny galley/toilet), or would they depend on the mother ship for such comforts? The latter would necessitate being able to cross between ships whilst in transit. Possible or not?
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:52 pm
by Disembodied
Cody wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:55 pm
Ships travelling in company: can they communicate with each other whilst in transit? It could be mother ships with escorts, or two or more ships sharing a wormhole, playing leap-frog to get somewhere. In the case of escorts, can escort pilots use the mother ship's facilities? I'm thinking toilets/galleys - it could be nearly 2 days. Escort fighters are usually small (Mambas, Geckos, Sidewinders), with no hyperspace capability - would they have limited facilities (tiny galley/toilet), or would they depend on the mother ship for such comforts? The latter would necessitate being able to cross between ships whilst in transit. Possible or not?
I, too, favour the "witchspace travel takes time" scenario, as it gives space and time for Things To Happen in (it also makes ships seem more like somewhere people live, eat, and sleep in - more like ships, in fact, and less like vans or lorries). In "Stranglehold" I went with the idea that each ship is, in witchspace, a tiny pocket universe, which would rule out communication … but if you need ships sharing a wormhole to be able to talk to each other, see each other, and dock with each other for plot reasons, just make it so. Or handwave your way around it: there could be a difference between opportunistically diving into an already-open wormhole, and participating in a *shared* wormhole. If your witchdrive is tuned to the mothership's resonant frequency then you can share an expanded warp bubble, and coexist in the same pocket universe. The mothership sends out the warp frequency in an encoded burst just before opening the wormhole; escort pilots tune their drives to the same frequency, then follow mama.
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:27 pm
by Cholmondely
Disembodied wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:52 pm
Cody wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:55 pm
Ships travelling in company: can they communicate with each other whilst in transit? It could be mother ships with escorts, or two or more ships sharing a wormhole, playing leap-frog to get somewhere. In the case of escorts, can escort pilots use the mother ship's facilities? I'm thinking toilets/galleys - it could be nearly 2 days. Escort fighters are usually small (Mambas, Geckos, Sidewinders), with no hyperspace capability - would they have limited facilities (tiny galley/toilet), or would they depend on the mother ship for such comforts? The latter would necessitate being able to cross between ships whilst in transit. Possible or not?
I, too, favour the "witchspace travel takes time" scenario, as it gives space and time for Things To Happen in (it also makes ships seem more like somewhere people live, eat, and sleep in - more like ships, in fact, and less like vans or lorries). In "Stranglehold" I went with the idea that each ship is, in witchspace, a tiny pocket universe, which would rule out communication … but if you need ships sharing a wormhole to be able to talk to each other, see each other, and dock with each other for plot reasons, just make it so. Or handwave your way around it: there could be a difference between opportunistically diving into an already-open wormhole, and participating in a *shared* wormhole. If your witchdrive is tuned to the mothership's resonant frequency then you can share an expanded warp bubble, and coexist in the same pocket universe. The mothership sends out the warp frequency in an encoded burst just before opening the wormhole; escort pilots tune their drives to the same frequency, then follow mama.
But does "witchspace travel takes time" for those in witchspace? Energy Banks don't recharge. Neither do shields. I've seen a couple of posts on this BB (can't find them now, needless to say!) arguing that this is because the travel is instantaneous unless one gets lost in witchspace when time begins again!
Re: A question of lore
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:50 pm
by Disembodied
Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:27 pm
But does "witchspace travel takes time" for those in witchspace? Energy Banks don't recharge. Neither do shields. I've seen a couple of posts on this BB (can't find them now, needless to say!) arguing that this is because the travel is instantaneous unless one gets lost in witchspace when time begins again!
Yeah, I wangled around that with "Cook's Constant". In witchspace, a ship is a complete universe all to itself. Shuffling large quantities of energy from one side of your universe to the other - recharging shields or energy banks, in other words - can make your universe unstable. And you can't cool your lasers, because there's nowhere else to radiate the heat into. Unless you wangle your way around *that* …