Repopulation of the Ooniverse?

[Redspear]

Maybe time for Redspear to adjust the Rescaling Experiment

Indeed we've been here before

And of course that's very much what I'm up to... once again

[pleiadian]

Since I got the notion of most here that my list was too narrow in regards of what evolution could have brought forth into the ocean of the universe, I have amended my list of suggestions - which, by no means, is a definitive list. You're all invited to fine-tune this list, replace races, you name it. So here we go.

It should however be noted that the Tall Whites, Reticuli, and Midori are based on reports, sightings and urban legends from witnesses and people who claim to have been abducted by an alien civilisation. I thought it might be fun to mix them in.

Repopulation list, Take 2:

Tall Whites
Each race has their name for them, due to their skin and hair color. Arguably the tallest species per individual, their name comes from their appearance. Looks are similar to what could only be described as walking giants. Believed to be ancient, excel in trade and diplomacy. Dominant in Region 1.

Reticuli Triumvirate
Nicknamed the "Grays" for their prominent skin color. Very small in size but prominent heads and large black eyes, with fairly skinny body. Excel in covert operations, very ancient, huge scientific knowledge. Believed to originate from a constellation known as Reticulum. Dominant in Region 2.

Human colonists
Obviously the "mainline" human race. Jack of all trades but also masters of none, even engage in rogue and pirate activities. Sometimes excel in diplomacy and science. Dominant in Region 3.

Midori Regime
Mostly a war-faring race and almost always engaged in combat, they are reminiscent of an reptilian-like shape. Can live in peculiar conditions, few have ever seen them in person. Excel in military incursions, defense, attack and weapon manufacturing. Dominant in Region 4.

Order of the Venthu
Primarily a religious race, they look like somewhat upright walking lizards. They own the biggest financial institution in the ooniverse, The Bank of the Black Monks. Excel in trade and financial brokering. Dominant in Region 5.

Brane Federation
Standing in stark contrast to other races, the Brane are energy-based beings. They are mostly an exploring society. Claim to have visited every single system in the Ooniverse. Excel in exploring and data mining, but also experts on the matter of defense. Dominant in Region 6.

People's Republic of Chi'taia
Dark-skinned, with three legs, but rather wide than high and looking like chinchilla, the Chi'taia are a ruthless race that engages in all kind of activity which promises to extend the race's possession of things as a whole - the more the better. No political form, but can be defined as anarchy. Excel in aggression tactics and military strategy, but are willing to trade with anyone offering good deals. Dominant in Region 7.

State of Prathell
Ruled by an alliance of their most powerful corporations, the Prathell are reminiscent of a two-legged horse with long arms. They are excelling in any kind of industry and have learned to make good deals. But also no novice when it comes to defense. Dominant in Region 8.

-------------

Thargoid
An insect-like race not known to have any origin. Their political direction remains unknown, as well as their area of expertise. Though the past shown this to be war-faring race with no other aim then to expand their space, or make sure that the space they enter, will remain theirs after an incursion. Not dominant in any region, but appear in any region, at any system, with no visible pattern. Seem to excel in weapons technology. Dominant in interstellar space.

[PhantorGorth]

@pleiadian

Have a look at this thread: 6286. It disolves into handbags at dawn towards the end but sorts itself out. It includes some interesting ideas (and not just from me).

[Cody]

Wrong link, PG?

[PhantorGorth]

Fixed

[Redspear]

After a quick scan through that thread and some of the earlier arguments here...

I think there may be just a few key assumptions that, if removed, already present plausible explanations for the inhabitants as represented in game.
Crucially, I don't think the first one has been discussed beyond a cursory level.


1 - Taxonomic

Is a red lobster the same species as a green lobster?
Are they even lobsters?
Are classifications concerned with evolution/genetic similarity or could they instead be based on more practical considerations for the average spacefarer?

Just as a young child might consider a dolphin a fish or a spider an insect, taxonomy isn't always as obvious as we might think. In the far future of space-traders travelling from system to system (potentially without ever landing on a planet) what use is the knowledge of the inhabitants?

In addition, it is not unheard of for species to be reclassified as human understanding of evolutionary pathways develops. So reclassifying groups is nothing new.

You said I would be trading with mammals, damn it!

You were.

They had fins!

Yes, mammals with fins.

Mammals don't have fins and live in the %@$#ING OCEAN!
Fish, fish have fins!
If I'd known I'd have been trading with fish then I wouldn't have brought them 35 tons of %@$#ING BANANAS!.

... Er, mammals can have fins too.

I'm a trader not a scientist! When you tell me mammal it means a monkey. You got that? A %@$#ING MONKEY! ... a monkey or a dog...

So, if classification were to be more practical from a future spacefaring humanocentric point of view, how might it work?
One possible reading (with practical considerations for species interactions):

• Bird = can fly
• Feline = solitary carnivore
• Frog = can leap
• Humanoid = miscellaneous
• Insects = group behaviours
• Lizards = heat sensitive
• Lobster = semi aquatic
• Rodent = contagion risk

In which case could a bat then be classed as a 'furry bird'? If so we now have explanations for some very strange (and sometimes seemingly contrary) descriptions of inhabitants.

In game evidence: Slimy Lobsters (newts?), Bony Birds (beetles?), Bony Felines (praying mantids?), Furry Insects (lions?)

Whilst the above examples are deliberately provocative, I think they illustrate how different a classification system could be.

Human colonials are by far the most common group, suggesting a humanocentric classification system
Inhabitants is listed as one of the key factors on the F7 screen, suggesting a level of importance given that the trader need only dock at a station and not land on the planet.


2 - Generative

Need there be a common point of origin for all 'lobsters'?

This relates to taxonomic assumptions.
One reason why there might not: they're classification as lobsters need not be based on a common origin but rather the independent invention/evolution of common traits. For example, aquatic mammals swim in superficially similar manner to fish yet the development of their swimming style was (for the most part) independant. We only have our own planet's evidence for this but then if we're talking about life then that very much describes the boat that we are in.

In game evidence: there are no obvious central points for any 'animal' group in a statistical sense


3 - Interactive

Why might all lobsters group together?
Shouldn't there be areas of conqured space, much like there are for human colonials?

Development / availability of hyperspace technology has already been discussed but what about the idea that suitable planet types might simply be less common? The planet that a 'lobster' species might regard as habitable might be much less common than one that is suitable for a human. As for lobsters on Earth and their being able to colonise similar planets, I refer you to taxonomic assumptions above.

In game evidence: there are no obvious 'clusters' of inhabitant types beyond those that one might expect to occur randomly


The above is only one possible interpretation of the in game situation regarding planetary inhabitants and by no means do I claim it to be 'correct'.
Where I think it may be useful however is to illustrate how easily assumptions can 'get in the way' of making sense of fictional environments rather than simply accepting them and having fun with an evocative, identifiable and yet extremely brief description of alien life-forms.

Besides, space lobsters are cool

[Diziet Sma]

In which case could a bat then be classed as a 'furry bird'?

Dammit.. you made me laugh 'til I choked..

Thanks!

Besides, space lobsters are cool

Of course they are.. how else could one become Oolite's lead developer?

[Redspear]

In which case could a bat then be classed as a 'furry bird'?

Dammit.. you made me laugh 'til I choked..

Thanks!

You know it makes sense

[hoqllnq]

In my mind, this is the explanation for the distribution of different species across the Charts:

Humans from Old Earth started colonising other planets. We brought along the other species. For food (lobsters, frogs?), as pets (felines), unintentionally (insects, rodents).

Some (about half) of the planets we landed on turned out to be not very suitable for humans, so we left in search for better planets. Some of the other species we brought may have escaped, or we just left them there. Or in case we were unable to leave, they survived while we died. On some planets, we didn't quite land, but crashed. The only survivors were the insects on board.

The small size of the initial population combined with the new and different environment would cause them to relatively quickly evolve and become Large / Fierce, Red / Green / Blue, Slimy / Bony / Furry, or put the -oid in Humanoid.

The Galactic Charts only show systems that have GalCop presence / stations. That doesn't mean that there are no other systems, but we just don't have witch space worm hole coordinate mappings for them. This is why all jumpable systems are inhabited by Earth-originated species. This is also why Thargoids are considered Aliens but the other species are not.

[Cholmondely]

I've got my own idea of where all these cats, frogs, rodents and so on all came from, one which I hope to get out in a piece of fiction in the not-too-distant future...

Did this ever materialise? And if not, what are your ideas?

[Nite Owl]

Been having a think along similar lines for a while now. The varied species question comes down to just one thing - Opposable Thumbs. If you cannot grasp a tool you cannot become a technologically advanced species. An argument could be made for the use of tentacles as a grasping mechanic. The somewhat flimsy nature of the outer covering of a tentacle, and its need to be moist, puts it at a disadvantage. So lets explore what we have in the Ooniverse.

Humanoids - Already have Opposable Thumbs
Felines - Have paws
Frogs - Have pads or sticky toes
Birds - Have wings and technically no real hands at all
Insects - No hands but six legs
Lobsters - Two large claws and a bunch of spindly legs
Rodents - Varies by species but mostly paws or sharp toes
Lizards - Claws and some sticky toes

If we look at each of these as a base for evolution then it can work. It requires one to accept the Humanoid model as being the ideal. Take an example from Star Trek, in particular The Cardassians. You can tell by looking at them that their base evolutionary path began with Lizards. Over time their evolution brought that origin species to a Humanoid form. Why? Because it works best for tool use. The same can be said for all of the species on the above list. They would maintain some features that would identify their origin species but the basics of the Humanoid form would be needed. Hands with Opposable Thumbs, forward viewing eyes for depth perception, an upright posture, while still maintaining some semblance of their original form. They might maintain some fur or feathers or a need for water or heat or develop societies that are hive based. They may even have facial features that resemble their origins. No matter this maintenance of origins the basic need to be able to efficiently use tools would be the driving force of their evolution into viable civilizations.

The next question is how did this evolution get done in so short an amount of time? The answer is that it did not. If the Human Colonials are the legacy of travelers from Earth then all of the other species were already here in the Eight when they arrived, including the Humanoid variations. Just as Human evolution took lots of time on Earth so too did it take lots of time on the Planets of the Eight. This way by the time the Human Colonials arrived many of the Planets were already occupied by the various species mentioned above. Each Planet would be its own environmental niche which would account for the variations seen within each species, blue and green Lobstoids, Fuzzy Humanoids, etc. As long as we as dwellers in the immersion that is Oolite can come even somewhat close to a consensus on this Opposable Thumb question then we are ahead of the game.

[Redspear]

The Cardassians

Briefly thought you were going somewhere completely different there...

(avoids obvious dereogatory, potentially unfair and legally objectionable remarks )

The varied species question comes down to just one thing - Opposable Thumbs

Well it certainly helps on earth and one might expect it to elsewhere but remember that it's the manipulation they offer, not the thumbs themselves that grant the advantage.

The somewhat flimsy nature of the outer covering of a tentacle, and its need to be moist, puts it at a disadvantage.

I can't recall when but it was once suggested to me that the main reasons molluscs (including the octopus) did not evolve to a position comparable to mammals in general (and humans in particular) was as a consequence of their means of locumotion. An octopus 'arm' is in some ways superior to a human hand, at least under water (which includes more habitable space than does land on this planet).

But yeah, I think I get your point even if I might quibble re the detail.

One way to think of the various groups is that all of them, without exception, are humanoid. Being labelled as 'humanoid' however, just means that that particular species couldn't be easilly identified as having evolved from/belonging to any of the other groups.

Imagine the bat example in one of my earlier posts here:

Is it a bird? Does it have feathers and a beak? No.
Is it a feline? Does it have four limbs, whiskers and pointy ears? Er, yeah but its got wings and flies like a bird.
OK, call it a humaniod then.

[Wildeblood]

KW and I just wonder whether catgirls count as humanoid or feline?

[Cholmondely]

I'd thought that "species" (as defined by Linnaeus or whomever) was to do with breeding. If two individuals can breed, then they are the same species. If not, not.

[Redspear]

KW and I just wonder whether catgirls count as humanoid or feline?

That's what this thread needs, a profoundly serious question.
Would they be 'furry catgirls', or just 'catgirls'?

I'd thought that "species" (as defined by Linnaeus or whomever) was to do with breeding. If two individuals can breed, then they are the same species. If not, not.

Yeah, it used to be that if they could breed and produce fertile offspring then they were regarded as the same species. Then it was noted that sometimes the female hybrids in particular could sometimes be fertile. So it's a bit more murky than that I'm afraid.