Oolite Bulletins

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:26 am**

JD wrote:
Would it be possible to replace the sharply drawn circle we have now with one that's just a little blurred/fuzzy, so the rounding discrepancy isn't obvious, thereby continuing to provide a visual indication of range and spare capacity, and add the lines as the definitive indicator of what's reachable?

This should be possible, yes. The problem is that with the jump range not actually being circular you'll always end up with situations where to make a "7.15" jump like Usraqu-Beteona look reachable, you'll also make a "7.2" jump like Lazaso-Cecear look possible. There's not really a suitable compromise degree of fuzziness.

How about this - fading out the lines as they approach the edge of your jump range.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:35 am**

cim wrote:
How about this - fading out the lines as they approach the edge of your jump range.

V. slick. Do it. No need for further discussion here.

Addendum: a colour gradient from blue to red might convey fuel angst even better than the fading line?

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:13 am**

cim wrote:
This should be possible, yes. The problem is that with the jump range not actually being circular you'll always end up with situations where to make a "7.15" jump like Usraqu-Beteona look reachable, you'll also make a "7.2" jump like Lazaso-Cecear look possible. There's not really a suitable compromise degree of fuzziness.

How about this - fading out the lines as they approach the edge of your jump range.

That does look slick, but I'd vote for a circle as well. There's never going to be a time when a planet is inside the circle, but unreachable. The number of occasions when the circle would not encompass in-range systems is pretty small, but - just in your screenshot above - it's actually not immediately obvious if it's possible to jump from Isoned to Aanan, or to Xeatxe (both down at around 8 o'clock), partly because of the inevitable interruption of the lines by the system names. You have to look quite closely to see that Aanan is in range and Xeatxe isn't. A pale blue, slightly fuzzed circle would include Aanan and exclude Xeatxe.

Edited to add: in the current screenshot, I'd have my doubts about reaching Vesozax and Diraza, too ...

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:30 am**

Brilliant, just brilliant cim

. Genius way of hiding the quirks of an ancient formula.

On an academic side, I made some calculations on one random quirky system to see what the change to the correct distance formula would mean and what would be the effects of moving.

The system is Inera in G1 and it has 9 connections. The numbers calculated are: true distance, archaic distance, true jump time, archaic jump time.

Code: Select all

[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [85, 16, 'Esredice']: 1.2, 1.2, 1.44, 1.44
[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [93, 29, 'Raale']: 5.11077293567, 4.8, 26.12, 23.04
[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [95, 19, 'Gelaed']: 5.23450093132, 5.2, 27.4, 27.04
[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [81, 30, 'Sotiera']: 2.82842712475, 2.8, 8.0, 7.84
[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [92, 9, 'Orrira']: 4.23792402008, 4.0, 17.96, 16.0
[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [91, 47, 'Aanbiat']: 7.16937933157, 6.8, 51.4, 46.24
[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [77, 41, 'Dizaoner']: 5.38516480713, 5.2, 29.0, 27.04
[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [74, 34, 'Sorace']: 4.81663783152, 4.8, 23.2, 23.04
[82, 16, 'Inera'] - [98, 17, 'Rexebe']: 6.40312423743, 6.4, 41.0, 40.96

A simple switch to the real distance, probably rounded up to the first decimal, would practically mean bigger fuel consumption and longer travel times. It would also be possible to use the whole tank instead of 6.8, which is the current limit due to the formula used.

The troublesome pair here is Inera - Aanbiat. They are positioned somewhat diagonally and Inera is close to the top of the map, so I chose to move it closer to Aanbiat so that the distance would be under 7.0. Here's the result:

Code: Select all

[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [85, 16, 'Esredice']: 1.07786826653, 0.8, 1.1618, 0.64
[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [93, 29, 'Raale']: 4.93293016371, 4.8, 24.3338, 23.04
[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [95, 19, 'Gelaed']: 5.09173840648, 4.8, 25.9258, 23.04
[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [81, 30, 'Sotiera']: 2.7220947816, 2.4, 7.4098, 5.76
[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [92, 9, 'Orrira']: 4.16146608781, 4.0, 17.3178, 16.0
[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [91, 47, 'Aanbiat']: 6.99183809881, 6.8, 48.8858, 46.24
[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [77, 41, 'Dizaoner']: 5.31543036828, 5.2, 28.2538, 27.04
[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [74, 34, 'Sorace']: 4.80934506976, 4.8, 23.1298, 23.04
[82.325, 16.65, 'Inera'] - [98, 17, 'Rexebe']: 6.27039073743, 6.0, 39.3178, 36.0

The second number is the interesting one as it shows the effect if the old formula is used. When comparing with the results earlier, there are actually quite a few changes in distances.

I have no idea what the game play effects would be from switching to the real distance formula or nudging the troublesome systems closer. The numbers above show that there are changes, but would they even be noticeable by the player? Nudging would naturally remove the glitch of systems outside the circle and using real distances would remove the 0.4 quantum from fuel consumption.

Disembodied wrote:
The number of occasions when the circle would not encompass in-range systems is pretty small...

Well, assuming my calculation are correct, there are exactly 26 troublesome connections involving 48 systems in G1. That's 48 systems out of 256 having a reachable system outside the circle.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:36 am**

spara wrote:
Disembodied wrote:
The number of occasions when the circle would not encompass in-range systems is pretty small...
Well, assuming my calculation are correct, there are exactly 26 troublesome connections involving 48 systems in G1. That's 48 systems out of 256 having a reachable system outside the circle.

That's bigger than I thought - but a combination of lines (to link to reachable systems that are outside the circle) and a circle (to make sure reachable systems don't appear unreachable due to interruptions in the lines) should fix that.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:48 am**

Disembodied wrote:
That's bigger than I thought...

Yes. That's because you only notice them by clicking a reachable system outside the circle.

The point of lines being hidden by text etc is a valid one. How about in addition to the diminishing lines drawing a circle in a same colour around the reachable systems?

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:05 pm**

spara wrote:
The point of lines being hidden by text etc is a valid one. How about in addition to the diminishing lines drawing a circle in a same colour around the reachable systems?

Like a kind of lasso? That could work!

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:12 pm**

I've committed a few more customisation options now.

Something like the following settings in an OXP gui-settings.plist would give those results as of tonight's build.

Code: Select all

{
    "chart_label_scale" = 0.7;
    "chart_label_color" = "1.0 0.0 1.0 1.0";
    "chart_range_color" = "1.0 0.7 0.0 0.5";
    "chart_currentjumpstart_color" = "0.15 0.45 0.65 1.0";
    "chart_currentjumpend_color" = "0.65 0.15 0.15 1.0";
}

Maybe have a go with a few options and see how it turns out.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:24 pm**

Probably only if you have the Advanced Navigational Array installed would you get anything other than a circle, inaccurate though it may be.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:43 pm**

Looks great Cim, but its still a bit hard to tell if Xeatxe is reachable, how about changing the text color of reachable systems to green and unreachable systems to yellow or red?

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:55 pm**

Switeck wrote:
Probably only if you have the Advanced Navigational Array installed would you get anything other than a circle, inaccurate though it may be.

Why would that be? The point of all this is that due to the old distance calculation formula the circle is faulty. Some see it being retro, while I see it being quirky. At first I thought it to be a bug, not a feature. Those options offer the possibility to remove the circle altogether and just have the connecting lines.

Stormrider wrote:
...how about changing the text color of reachable systems to green and unreachable systems to yellow or red?

A gui-settings.plist option to set the color of the reachable systems would be great

.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:00 pm**

spara wrote:
Switeck wrote:
Probably only if you have the Advanced Navigational Array installed would you get anything other than a circle, inaccurate though it may be.
Why would that be? The point of all this is that due to the old distance calculation formula the circle is faulty. Some see it being retro, while I see it being quirky. At first I thought it to be a bug, not a feature. Those options offer the possibility to remove the circle altogether and just have the connecting lines.

I quite like the idea of making this a feature of the ANA: it makes the difference between the advanced and unmodified systems more immediately obvious (and since the ANA is a non-original piece of kit, it's a sop to the retro fans, too).

spara wrote:
Stormrider wrote:
...how about changing the text color of reachable systems to green and unreachable systems to yellow or red?
A gui-settings.plist option to set the color of the reachable systems would be great .

Definitely a great idea!

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:52 am**

cim wrote:
I've committed a few more customisation options now.

Something like the following settings in an OXP gui-settings.plist would give those results as of tonight's build.
Code: Select all
{
    "chart_label_scale" = 0.7;
    "chart_label_color" = "1.0 0.0 1.0 1.0";
    "chart_range_color" = "1.0 0.7 0.0 0.5";
    "chart_currentjumpstart_color" = "0.15 0.45 0.65 1.0";
    "chart_currentjumpend_color" = "0.65 0.15 0.15 1.0";
}
Maybe have a go with a few options and see how it turns out.

I really like this and with a start colour and an end colour you could colour the lines as you like or have them the same for a solid colour line. also like the idea of reachable systems in a different colour but wouldnt that make the circle and the lines redundant? you can tell what you can reach on current fuel level by the colour of the name? would this work for a non full tank? for example on a recent parcel delivery run i had two short jumps one of 3 Ly and another of 2.8 Ly so i didnt bother to refuel in the middle. jump in jump out fuel at next station. on the second jump i had a much smaller circle. (this is also handy when my dumb commander forgets to refuel after selling his cargo. i keep telling him but he is getting old and i fear the oldtimers disease is kicking in early....)

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:22 pm**

I love it

. Here's a pic of the most distant reachable system from G1 (I mean going off the circle).

spud42 wrote:
...wouldnt that make the circle and the lines redundant?

Currently it's just more options. Which is good

. You can have the circle or lines or both. Whatever you prefer. Differently colored reachable system names would complement the lines nicely.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:14 pm**

Could the lines be added to the ANA too?

Oolite Bulletins

Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges

Re: Split: Alternative Representation of Jump Ranges