Oolite Bulletins

ClymAngus wrote:

Yet another good reason not to bother and focus on oxps that enhance instead of embellish.

Yes, fundamentally the issue is that the game has a broken economics model. This is nothing to be ashamed about: virtually all games that have any sort of "collect treasure - improve stats - collect more treasure" mechanic have broken economics models. It's tricky, because you need to allow players to progress at a reasonable rate, but eventually the money is coming in through a firehose and you run out of things to spend it on.

What might be useful is an OXP which experimentally jacks up - exponentially, if necessary - the maintenance costs of fancier ships and top-end equipment. Or one which adds in an infrequent but really painfully big cost (an annual ship overhaul, say) which can be saved up for, and deferred (for a bit) if necessary, but which will eventually take a big bite out of your savings. There could even be multiple levels of overhaul available: bog-standard expensive, which takes several days (and might earn you a Trumble or two if you're unlucky, and the decontamination team are sloppy); painfully expensive, which is a bit quicker and which is very unlikely to leave any furry gifts behind; and eye-wateringly expensive, which is swift and Trumble-free and leaves a chocolate mint on the headrest of your command couch.

I couldn't have put it better myself. More doodads and more twiddly costs.

ClymAngus wrote:

A way of showing status throughout the animal kingdom is closely tied to how many mates you have. As such it is historically (however ethically and progressively unsound in a modern society) an indication of "bling".

Ah, a money sink! "You have just recieved a statement from the Hoopy Casino at Xexedi that your primary mate has bought 40000000 tons of furs at 93 credits per ton. Please press space to approve the transfer of funds."

Money sinks is what this is all about - while the financial model is OK for a beginning pilot who keeps on adding weapons and trading up to better ships, it's way too easy to get vast amounts of money once you've got a decent ship and kitted it out with top of the line weapons etc., mainly because most of the costs of running a ship never change much, even if the ship is ten times as big.

For example, I'm in galaxy 8 on my fifth or sixth tour of the galaxies so I've bought 39 or 47 galactic hyperdrives, and they've all cost exactly the same amount of money, even though the first was for a Cobra and the last couple of dozen have been for a Boa Cruiser - I've currently got about 20.2 million in the bank, so I can buy them out of petty cash. I've never been clobbered for high insurance premiums because I've had to use my escape pod, been told "you just can't get the parts any more" or "the whole lot's failed its safety inspection," or run into any of the other problems that make running e.g. an old car or a real ship a money pit. Essentially the money becomes pointless once you've got your first million or so.

I'm not sure what can be done about this short of drastic changes to the economic model, my idea here was simply that if there's vast amounts of cash going spare it might as well get spent on something frivolous. I'd prefer to spend it more realistically, but it doesn't seem likely to happen.

Some thoughts...

Assumptions:

• Monetary system works well in early game.
• Money leads to more money.
• Same system gradually becomes less and less relevant once player has made his or her 'fortune'.
• This situation is undesirable.

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Early game:

As long as there's still plenty of useful kit or shinier ships to save up for, the various means of raising capital yield slowly enough to be gobbled up enthusiastically without being so slow as to become tedious. Maintainence bills can still hit you hard and lost cargo can be crippling. Despite the risks, there's still a reliable and simple strategy to get you rich (with a bit of luck).

Later game:

If you're still trading/ferrying/mining etc. (or even just defending yourself in a high spec ship) then there's easy money to be made, often much faster than you can spend it. In the absence of missions, things can get rather 'samey'. Variety (for some) now becomes a currency to crave.

Observation:

One of the biggest shifts in game experience can be buying a new ship. Each vessel has it's own distinct flavour: speed, agility, durability, size, even looks. Changing ship can change your game. You can do this wherever there is a ship for sale of course (with sufficient funds) but something that's popped up several times is the idea of owning more than one ship.

Usual counter arguments seem to be: 'player is ship, therefore can only be one ship';
'ship is stored in location x, therefore when player in location y, ship is irretrievable';
or even, 'just buy another one'.
Just buy another one? Can't guarantee they'll have what you want or with the equipment you installed.
Player is ship? Well, not when you're in your escape pod it isn't, and when you're docked that would require a particular point of view. Where this is perhaps most true is in the player's sense of attachment to a favoured or hard won vessel. That appeal could be made use of.
Ship is too far? I see a possibility here...

Suggestion:

If player owns another ship, player can request that ship be delivered to a nearby system (or current system subject to time delay) at a considerable cost (percentage of value). Perhaps the other ship is too far away for this to be practical - in which case a facsimile ship is provided (similar to escape pod usage).

This would be a luxury service that some might use a lot and others never, but it needn't be without strategy or story. "By the time I deliver this cargo to system X, I'll need my Asp waiting for me or I'll never deliver those parcels in time - not where that next jump will take me to. But do I have the credits? My sidewinder would be cheaper to get delivered but would it survive in an Anarchy...?"

There could be other associated fees (docking rental etc.) but these needn't be too high; rather than just a money-sink this could be a reason to save for a rainy, pirate-infested day.

On the other hand, it may have the potential to mess up some missions good and proper ...

phkb wrote:

- Renovated bathroom for that superior refresher feel. Perfect for long haul journeys

Essential

What if the result of using the escape capsule / insurance policy was that you got a cash payout, not a replacement ship? You would have to buy whatever was available in the local market if you wanted to move on - maybe if there were no ships available locally the insurer could fly you to the nearest system where ships are on sale. Regardless of what's on offer - "I'm sorry, sir, your policy covers you for the cost of replacement, finding a suitable ship is left to the customer." And a lot of places that sell ships don't necessarily have good add-ons and weapons for sale...

Trouble is this penalises players who use escape capsules as the game intended, rather than simply reloading saved games if they're killed.

ffutures wrote:

Trouble is this penalises players who use escape capsules as the game intended...

Using the escape capsule already penalises players if they're running contracts - it can take days to reach a station!

Redspear wrote:

As long as there's still plenty of useful kit or shinier ships to save up for, the various means of raising capital yield slowly enough to be gobbled up enthusiastically without being so slow as to become tedious. Maintainence bills can still hit you hard and lost cargo can be crippling. Despite the risks, there's still a reliable and simple strategy to get you rich (with a bit of luck).

Also in the early game, the player is often less good a pilot, so they won't know the perfect trade routes, won't be able to fight off an entire pirate pack with their stock Cobra, and won't know the optimal order to buy equipment for money-making. That means less money, and more combat repairs.

Redspear wrote:

something that's popped up several times is the idea of owning more than one ship.

Capt. Murphy's Extended Shipyards OXP does most of what you're thinking of. It probably needs some work on it, but the basics are there.

Diziet Sma wrote:

Unfortunately, the game (wisely) does not permit OXPs to mess with Trumbles..

You can add extra ones. player.ship.awardEquipment("EQ_TRUMBLE");

As for removing, it would be quite possible to write that OXP, it's just that no-one has. player.ship.removeEquipment("EQ_TRUMBLE"); doesn't work, obviously, but it can be done (and, looking at it, has been possible since well before 1.76 was released)

Here's a heretic idea. What if the game had an end? *Ducks for cover*. Seriously. Constant witchspacing could age the character so that the end would come sooner or later. Unless... You have ridiculous amounts of credits and are able to go through an expensive operation that would give you more years. Or maybe a certain Shulth could stir up some idea of transferring character's brain to a certain ship and after that the ship could not be changed. In the end you would really be the ship.

Or ... what if a ship could only be patched back together again so many times, and it cost more and more to keep it flying? Over time, services could become necessary more often, and cost more each time. Eventually, the player would have to cough up and buy a replacement ship. It might be a relatively easy way of incrementally increasing running costs, and adding in a big, necessary purchase.

cim wrote:

player.ship.removeEquipment("EQ_TRUMBLE"); doesn't work, obviously, but it can be done (and, looking at it, has been possible since well before 1.76 was released)

Seriously? It's possible to kill them off via OXP?

Damn.. over the last couple of years there have actually been a couple of quite clever suggestions for OXPs that would permit alternate ways to get rid of the little buggers.. but those making the suggestion were always told the game wouldn't permit it.

spara wrote:

Here's a heretic idea. What if the game had an end? *Ducks for cover*.

For me each commander does have an end, I find that at some point they have reached a level where they are just repeating themselves, so they become "lost in space" (I delete the save ) and a new commander starts out on a different adventure. I think that all my old Edit commodores commanders (thought i like the idea that they have been promoted ) /Edit are still out there doing what they can to survive , or retired to a luxury planet

spara wrote:

Seriously. Constant witchspacing could age the character so that the end would come sooner or later. Unless... You have ridiculous amounts of credits and are able to go through an expensive operation that would give you more years. Or maybe a certain Shulth could stir up some idea of transferring character's brain to a certain ship and after that the ship could not be changed. In the end you would really be the ship.

There is potential here to have a sort of treasure hunt:
You have caught the terminal 'Lavian Evil Sickness'...The only possible cure is in Esusale (gal.8 )...At Esusale you are told you require 7 items from galaxies 1 to 7 to provide the cure...Finding and buying them then paying for the cure costs you a several fortunes...perhaps even downgrading ships to have the funds (cost could be based on your wealth, not a fixed number)...all the time there is a clock ticking down to your death ... could be a hard thing to die just before reaching Esusale for the the cure
Somehow would require to have a clear of the save if death happened.

spara wrote:

Here's a heretic idea. What if the game had an end? *Ducks for cover*. Seriously. Constant witchspacing could age the character so that the end would come sooner or later. Unless... You have ridiculous amounts of credits and are able to go through an expensive operation that would give you more years.

Shades of Sid Meir's Pirates!

It is always an option. I think it might be worth stealing from other franchises. How do other people deal with the money mountain?