Idea for Smugglers OXP

[Cody]

I need to work out a way to communicate to the player what the best phase is for different government/techlevels. Some sort of smuggling underground chatter system (handwave-handwave), maybe via email - suggestion welcome!

Could rock hermits be used for such stuff in some way? I've always linked them with smuggling/black markets.

[phkb]

I had imagined them working that way as well, so yes.

[Cody]

I've long had a yen to extend some sort of parcel contracts (really dodgy ones) to rock hermits, but I've no idea if it's possible.

[Layne]

I was thinking about ways of making the hold's effectiveness variable, and adding a "phase" property to it. The player can then manually set the phase to a value (say, between 100 and 999). Each government type and techlevel will have equipment that is susceptible to a certain phase - if your hold is set to with +/- 5 points of their phase point, you will have an almost 100% chance that your smugglers hold won't be looked into. The further away from their phase point, the greater the chance, blowing out to a 60% chance the hold won't be looked into, so still in the player's favour but not guaranteed.

Then, I need to work out a way to communicate to the player what the best phase is for different government/techlevels. Some sort of smuggling underground chatter system (handwave-handwave), maybe via email - suggestion welcome!

The player will also be able to set the visible property of the smuggler's hold. What I mean is, the player can set a property that will make the hold scan as (say) food, or computers, or even empty. The player will need to be careful to set this correctly before entering a system, because if their hold says "food", and food is illegal, the contents of the hold will be discovered and confiscated, and the property can only be set when docked, not in-flight.

I'm trying to move away from the standard money-sink method of just buying upgrades for the smuggling hold. I think this method outlined above gives it the right feel, but let me know what you think.

Very interesting idea. I like having to have the player make some decisions rather than just basing the detection on a random chance, the way Illegal Goods OXP works now. I can think of several stations outside of the main one that might have smuggling contacts for the player to hook up with; Free Trade Zone and Random Hits Space Bars spring to mind. For players without any oxps added, Cody's suggestion for bringing Rock Hermits into the mix has some merit as well. I also like the idea of adding a 'black market' option to main stations in the same manner that New Cargoes adds specialty cargo trading areas. This area would have a rumor mill to pick up tips on where the hot smuggling runs are, advice on how to set your scanning-jammer to block detection in a certain system, fake permits for certain systems, etc. This may also be where you'd have to go to even get the smuggler's hold installed and upgraded to begin with.

[phkb]

(My apologies for repeatedly posting long posts! I hope the end result will be worth the reading!)

I'm leaning more and more towards making many of the smuggling hold purchase options only available from non-GalCop stations - I mean, the whole point of smuggling is to avoid the official eyes of the main station authorities, so it seems counter-intuitive to expect to be able to buy/repair/upgrade a smugglers hold at a GalCop-aligned station via the F3 screen. You can set the scan description of the hold, and the phase, at any station because they're ship systems, but if your hold is damaged you need to find a non-GalCop station. To add to the tension, if you dock at a GalCop station with a damaged smugglers hold, they could potentially remove it completely, along with whatever is inside.

Even with a black market interface screen, I still think it would be odd to be able to purchase and install a smuggler's hold when your ship is docked at a main station, in full view of all the docking personnel. Maybe upgrades can be purchased (ie the technology of the hold has a shelf-life as authorities improve their scanning technology), but initial purchase and repair should only be available from non-GalCop stations.

I think this is valuable for the core game as a whole, as it gives Rock Hermits more reason to be there, and more reasons for the player to want to find them, other than to get great deals on minerals or precious metals.

Given that rock hermits don't show up on the space compass by default, perhaps part of the smuggler's kit should be the Rock Hermit Locator, or some other piece of kit (perhaps using waypoints purchased in some manner from other Rock Hermits. eg rock hermit A knows where rock hermit B is in system X, and will sell you a waypoint for x cr. - side note: do many OXP's actually use waypoints?).

Black market interface screen is definitely part of the deal. Should there be some form of hurdle to entry? Would the installation of the smugglers hold be enough, or should there be some other condition of entry? Or would the main screen be open to everyone, but various sub-entries only visible once certain conditions are met? Eg, the "rumours" area might only be available after the completion of a couple of smuggling contracts.

What would the subsections of the blackmarket look like:

• Rumours/Scuttlebutt (the more reputation you have as a smuggler, the more rumours are visible, and better quality too)
• Local restrictions (lists all illegal goods and blockaded in systems within 7 LY radius, or maybe 15 LY)
• Contracts
• Equipment Purchase
  • Smugglers Hold tech upgrade (need to purchase these regularly to keep up with technology, only available at high-techlevel systems)
  • Purchase Rock Hermit waypoints
  • Purchase fake permits for restricted cargo
  • Purchase a one-shot wormhole jump adjuster that makes you arrive in-system further from the standard witchpoint marker, to aid in getting around blockades (no idea if this is even possible)
  • Subscripton to Smugglers.NET email service (no idea if this is desirable/feasible, just throwing ideas out there)
• other options?

Could there be the potential for discovery while accessing the black market screen at a main station? That is, if you spend too long in there, you might be discovered, and have a legal penalty applied?

[Cody]

Given that rock hermits don't show up on the space compass by default, perhaps part of the smuggler's kit should be the Rock Hermit Locator, or some other piece of kit...

Perhaps that kit would need to be earned by finding a certain number of rock hermits first (earning their trust) - they ain't too difficult to find manually.

[Day]

And completing a mission for the Rock Hermits Elders :-p
Hopefully one already exists.

[Norby]

I also like the idea of adding a 'black market' option to main stations

[wiki]SellAll[/wiki] provide something similar, named to "Alternative Customer" who buy your cargo regardless of the main market is full, just pay much less than the normal prices.

purchase and repair should only be available from non-GalCop stations.

Good idea, I think non-main stations still need more reason to be visited. Some ships in [wiki]EscortPack[/wiki] are also available in non-main stations only due to this.

should there be some other condition of entry?

We thinked once to use the Storage room in [wiki]Life in the Frontier[/wiki] to randomly meet important persons who can give the information where is the local black market currently: a waypoint to a rock hermit or a moving big trader ship. Some fuctions can be in the first place, others in another to make the solar systems more decentralized.

Some traders on the main spacelane also could tell rumors if targeted by the player and no GalCop ship in the scanner.

I think a full black market on a GalCop station is almost impossible. I imagine a gem market only, anything larger probably easily detectable by security cameras.

[phkb]

SellAll provide something similar, named to "Alternative Customer" who buy your cargo regardless of the main market is full, just pay much less than the normal prices.

I notice that sell all uses the F8F8 method - how does that work with 1.82 where F8F8 goes to the commodity information page?

Long post warning

OK, I'm still trying to get my head around the scope of this OXP. The issue I'm facing now is compatibility with one of my favourite OXP's, "Illegal Goods Tweak". Here's the problem:

If I, say, make food illegal on a planet, and rig it up so that docking with food visible in my hold makes me get a bounty, but I also have (say) narcotics on board, if I have the Illegal goods tweak installed, it will happily let me had over the narcotics without penalty, but this this new OXP kicks in and whacks me with a legal penalty for having food. This seems more than a bit weird.

Plus, I'd like to make firearms OK to trade in some systems (high-end stable systems) and illegal in others (unstable or "civil war" systems).

Once again, this will break the Illegal Goods tweak, or at least require significant rework.

And I haven't even started looking at "New Cargoes"!

So, here's my plan: If this new OXP is installed alongside "Illegal Goods Tweak", I'll make IGT switch to a "Slaves-only" mode, whereby all the missions and logic for handing over slaves is kept intact, but everything relating to firearms and narcotics is left to the new OXP. I think I can do that with minimal effort.

What do you think? The other option is to make this new OXP incompatible with Illegal Goods Tweak and to copy over all the missions and logic to the new OXP, but that seems like a lot of work.

[Layne]

Once again, this will break the Illegal Goods tweak, or at least require significant rework.

And I haven't even started looking at "New Cargoes"!

So, here's my plan: If this new OXP is installed alongside "Illegal Goods Tweak", I'll make IGT switch to a "Slaves-only" mode, whereby all the missions and logic for handing over slaves is kept intact, but everything relating to firearms and narcotics is left to the new OXP. I think I can do that with minimal effort.

What do you think? The other option is to make this new OXP incompatible with Illegal Goods Tweak and to copy over all the missions and logic to the new OXP, but that seems like a lot of work.

Since the main focus of Illegal Goods seems to be the slave trade (or at least that's the only one to generate side missions afterwards), that seems reasonable. The alternative is to somehow merge Illegal Goods Tweak into this larger oxp, with an incompatibility for 'vanilla' Illegal Goods to prevent any duplication of code. Are you currently maintaining Illegal Goods? The original can be left as is and that way people still have the option to download it if that's all they want, or they can get the total Smugger's OXP which will include a modified IGT? Or will that be a horrible mess to sort out?

[phkb]

Are you currently maintaining Illegal Goods?

Yep, that's in my bucket. I think having a dual-mode operation for IGT is probably easier for everyone (me in particular!). Those who want this new OXP can keep IGT and it will switch to slaves-only. Those who don't want the new OXP don't see any change. I think that will work. I'd rather not try to migrate code from one OXP to another if I can avoid it.

As for New Cargoes, is that still compatible with 1.82? I think it completely reworks the legal/illegal commodities issue to achieve it's goals, but I don't use it myself. Is anyone using NC with 1.82? Does it still work with the all the new commodity stuff?

[Layne]

Are you currently maintaining Illegal Goods?

Yep, that's in my bucket. I think having a dual-mode operation for IGT is probably easier for everyone (me in particular!). Those who want this new OXP can keep IGT and it will switch to slaves-only. Those who don't want the new OXP don't see any change. I think that will work. I'd rather not try to migrate code from one OXP to another if I can avoid it.

As for New Cargoes, is that still compatible with 1.82? I think it completely reworks the legal/illegal commodities issue to achieve it's goals, but I don't use it myself. Is anyone using NC with 1.82? Does it still work with the all the new commodity stuff?

Oh, I mis-interpreted what you meant, I thought you were thinking of disabling the features in the standard release of IGT-- you're talking about building in a kill-switch for those commodities into the Smuggler's OXP. No Smugglers, then IGT works as normal. Install Smugglers and it disables those parts of IGT. Right.

[Norby]

I notice that sell all uses the F8F8 method - how does that work with 1.82 where F8F8 goes to the commodity information page?

Fixed, thank you for spotting!

[phkb]

Quick one: I'd like to sort out the name of this OXP from the get-go - can anyone offer some suggestions? The scope of the OXP covers smuggling, illegal trade, trade embargoes, blockade running, black markets and such. I suppose "Smuggling" would work, but is kind of boring. "SmugglersDen" is more interesting but perhaps too narrow in focus. Any other suggestions?

[SteveKing]

How about "Smuggle-R-Us" (although in this context, the word 'smuggle' sounds a little pre-schooly afternoon sleep-ish).

Does "Smugglers - The Galactic Underworld" have a better descriptive flavour?